Is She a Crazy Bitch? A Quiz
This isn’t a rhetorical question. If you’ve asked yourself more than once, “Is my girlfriend/wife/fiancee a crazy bitch?” as a clinical psychologist, I’m here to tell you the answer is, “Yes. Diagnostically speaking, she may very well be a crazy bitch.“
A crazy bitch insidiously makes you feel like the unstable, angry person. You soon doubt your interpretation of events and experiences. In psychological circles, this type of woman is said to suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) or Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or a combination of the two. Actually, the ones who really suffer are the people who come into contact with the Borderline or Narcissist.
Here’s a quiz to find out if you’re involved with one of these women:
- Does she fly into rages without warning over relatively trivial matters like a web page loading too slowly?
- Are you always the scapegoat/bad guy whenever she’s frustrated, disappointed or just plain bored?
- Do her friends (that is, if she has any) describe her as a “drama queen?”
- Does she describe herself as a drama queen? If so, congrats. You found one with a modicum of self-awareness.
- Is her lipstick a little too red? Is it applied like theater makeup and a tad crooked?
- Did sex begin with an earth shattering bang and fizzle into infrequent, transactional and conditional sex?
- Is she a black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinker?
- Do you lie to your family, friends and colleagues about what goes on at home?
- Do you find yourself making excuses to your family, friends and colleagues for her inexcusable behavior?
Do you find yourself walking on eggshells around her?- Does she hate your friends and family and become angry or tearful when you spend time with them?
- Is she pathologically jealous?
- Does she project her feelings onto you? For example, she’s yelling and raging and then accuses you of being angry. WTF?
- Does focus solely on her emotional experience while exhibiting little or no empathy for yours?
- Have you distanced yourself from friends and family because of your relationship?
- Does she place you on a pedestal one day only to tear you down the next day? “I’ve never known anyone like you before. You’re so wonderful!” Next day: “You’re the devil! You’re the most selfish bastard I’ve ever met! You don’t love me!”
- Did she change her identity after she landed you? For example, when you first met her she was a sexy, adventurous, sweet ballbuster; now, she’s afraid of her own shadow, has no outside interests and goes ballistic if she has to do anything without you.
- Does she put you into “no win” situations in which nothing you do is good enough and you’re guaranteed to fail?
- Does she exhibit stalker behaviors? This usually occurs during the courtship phase or when she senses you’re about to make a break for it. For instance: Calling and hanging up? Calling over and over and over until you answer the phone? Does she wait outside your home, uninvited, until you arrive? Does she show up at places she know you’ll be, also uninvited? Has she tried to get close to your friends in inappropriate ways?
If you answered “yes” to more than two of these questions, you may be involved with a Borderline or a Narcissist. You’re not alone. They’re everywhere.
Most of the men who ended up in my therapy office were there because they were experiencing stress, depression or anxiety as a result from being in an emotionally abusive relationship with a Borderline or a Narcissist. Ironically, most of the time they were shamed and pathologized into seeking counseling by these women. Never mind that most of the symptoms my male patients experienced were a direct result of being in a relationship with a BPD or NPD.
If you think you may be involved with a Borderline or a Narcissist, good luck. They’re typically treatment resistant and they never really get any better. If you choose to stay in relationship with these women, I strongly recommend you educate yourself about the disorders and learn some basic behavioral management skills.
By: Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
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Photo credits:
Crazy woman from istockphotos.
Walking on eggshells from “ada loves you” on flickr.
Stumble It!
Shit – I could answer yes to SEVEN of the above….
….kill me
Al-
I answered “yes” to all of them when assessing my ex-wife
its great to know that im not fricken alone, i dont know what to do any more i feel like i am falling in and out of love with her daily… she admits she has a problem, but never changes. its a god damn roller coaster
Nick: When my daughter was 1 month old I was told by my ex that she would take my daughter from me so she never knew who her father was.
The next day my ex was telling me how much she loved me.
I stayed for as long as I could (almost three years) to make sure I had a strong bond with my daughter before I was locked out during another blow out.
My ex also acknowledge she had problems, but I can tell you after 3 years on the roller coaster the roller coaster ride WILL NOT END.
Dr Tara is the expert here but my advice – Get out – and get out now.
Scarry sounds like my ex wife. Oh wait it is. Sorry David. It’s not our fault. The only one that suffers is our children. The ride will never end for us.
I don’t know if this is common, but my wife pouts at the slightest disapproval. For example, if I don’t laugh at her “jokes,” or on the rare occasions when I tell her to “stop it.”. The pout also makes an appearance when I dare to start a “we need to talk about [x]” discussion.
She pouts by sticking her lower lip out really far – it’s cartoonish. I’m starting to think, however, that it’s not deliberately comical. Usually it’s a quick flash of the lip, unless she’s about to start crying (which happens when I’ve held her accountable. This leads straight into the “not my fault and you’re so mean” spiel.).
And a couple of times when I’ve screwed up extra special, she gives me this look where her face muscles all go slack and her eyes seem to turn black. It’s _horrifying_.
So, “makes inappropriate faces” might be another hint…
That’s a good addition to the checklist, Mr E. Inappropriate or disproportionate reactions are definitely a common occurrence with these women. I’ve heard others describe the last facial expression you describe as “the death stare” and, yes. it’s horrifying.
Remember, the emotional range of these women is that of a 5-year old. Hold her accountable, criticize her or ask her to have a conversation she doesn’t want to have (for fear of being held accountable or criticized) and you’ll get one or a combination of the following three responses:
1. Tantrum
2. Tears
3. Cold, sullen withdrawal (i.e., pouting)
Thanks for the addition.
Best,
Dr T
No 1. check, No. 2check, No. 3 check,check and check. Been there for a long time now. And the”LOOK” as it’s sometimes called is a “death look”. very well put. When I first met my wife I know she could “look daggers” at anyone who crossed her but in those early days I never thought that that look would be turned on me. Wish all this information has been availible 40 years ago.
oh, god this might be my situation. she tells me to go hang with my friends and is mad about it when i get home.
I think my girlfriend is definately Narcisistic after reading this – she’s got most of those traits but the one I find most annoying is her distorted perception of reality where I will do something and then be screamed at that I have been told 3 times before not to do that – where as in reality i’ve never even heard it mentioned. I’m also aware that she has been slating me behind my back to her friends and family which is really getting on my nerves as half of what she has been saying isn’t true (well in this reality!).
What do I do? Should I confront her and risk a minefield tantrum and half the house being blown up!??
Confrontation rarely works. Oftentimes, NPDs/BPDs twist it around and blame you. Also, you will unleash the hounds of hell if you dare to criticize your NPD girlfriend. In fact, the more accurate the criticism, the nastier the NPD will become.
What should you do? Ask yourself why you’re in this relationship. What are you getting out of it? Why do you tolerate her behavior? Why don’t you end it before, god forbid, you have children with this woman and are tethered to her financially for the rest of her life?
Kind Regards,
Dr T
I read this and after dealing with my ex-wife for as many years as I have, I read this quiz with my marriage in mind.
The question about the lipstick was the only no.
I read the description down below and yes, she’s the reason I was in therapy for 7 years.
Wow.
Another possible addition:
Do mutual friends/roommates confront you when they’re upset with her?
I can recall several instances where a friend / roommate has come to me about her behavior (frequently with some hostility). I always figured this was because I was an easy target, and felt weak.
I definitely think poor boundaries on my part encouraged this behavior (I should have stopped them and told them to talk to her, not me), but I think the root problem is that they were afraid to confront her directly.
When I foolishly bring up whatever the friend/roomie complained about to her, I get interrogated and eventually raged at when I freeze up and stop talking. She’ll also hold a grudge against the person in question for ages.
The good news is, I’ve finally figured this out, and have started telling people to just talk to her. Curiously enough, they never do…
I’d love to know if this is a common experience.
ditto, ditto, ditto
Yep they hold grudges forever
So I’m not alone? I answered “YES” to all the questions above except the lipstick one too. The bad thing for me, is that I DO have kids with the woman.
She uses the kids as leverage whenever she feels like “leaving” because (insert today’s excuse here). Every evening I get “talked to” about how I can be improved upon. If I question her or call her out on any of her shortcomings, dear Lord in heaven the hell that follows is undescribable.
Guys, if you are with a woman like this and do not have chilcdren with her… GET OUT NOW!!!! NOW! NOW!
I pray almost everyday to get cancer.
Hi Run4TheHills,
If you’re praying for a terminal illness, there’s a definite problem. There’s a third option to dying and staying in this relationship: divorce. Marriage to these women can be like a slow, long psychological death (rather like certain forms of cancer), so why not cut the tumor out?
Yes it will be difficult and painful for both you and your children, but so is remaining in an abusive relationship. I know it isn’t easy, but the price of freedom, the eventual peace of mind and ability to enjoy life again is so very worth it.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Divorce, agreed.
Once you decide to take control of your destiny and take the first step…like meeting with a lawyer…you’ll be surprised how quickly your feelings of helplessness and despair will disappear.
Post-separation, you’ll be poor and you’ll miss living with your kids full time, but when you’re with them you’ll be walking tall. They’ll know it, you’ll know it, and it feels great.
You’ll be amazed at how much more enjoyable it is to spend time with your children when your ex isn’t off on the side treating you like a hand-puppet.
Your predicament seems overwhelming, but it isn’t.
JP
Thanks, JP. Glad you’re back.
Dr T
I agree do it
I knew it and I wish I came across this site earlier. My wife displays most of these signs other than the red lipsticks. Talk about pathological jealousy .. today I suggested to an old lady who was the owner of a grocery store we shopped at, that it was cold and she should get a small heater …. my wife lost it and called me a disgusting bastard and accused me of chatting up another women! My conversation was less than 5 sentences about the weather and a heater.
It’s been 3 years now of living hell and being cut off from my family and friends :-(
Forgot to add that what really upset me was because of the conversation about the weather and a heater, my wife threatended to abort our unborn child (only 3 months) and apparently it is *my* baby not hers.
Hi ST,
That’s awful. Unfortunately, once you have a child with a woman like this, you’re pretty much screwed in that she will continue to use your son or daughter as a device to control, manipulate and hurt you. This is only the beginning. What are you going to do or have you resigned yourself to this life?
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Can they medication for this?
My wife exhibits these first two on the list:
Does she fly into rages without warning over relatively trivial matters like a web page loading too slowly?
Are you always the scapegoat/bad guy whenever she’s frustrated, disappointed or just plain bored?
And doesn’t really exhibit any of the other characteristics (although I admit that I am often nervous that she will be inappropriate in front of others). I am trying to figure out what to do about it. I guess my question is, if she is an angry and over-emotional person at times (like 2 to 3 times a week), would you still recommend getting out of the relationship? Thanks.
Boy oh boy, did I experience quite a “deja vu” reading your post. And I think I figured out #1…the “trivial” stuff is what gets them going because it’s quick and easy–just like a TRIGGER! Whereas important stuff, like a discussion of finances, is avoided because CALM, rational talk is necessary. Here’s a simple example…
I’ve been unemployed for quite a few months, thanks to the economy. If I go to Home Depot and spend $20 on something NEEDED for the house, I get the 3rd degree, “we don’t have the extra money”, etc. Yet, she’ll think nothing of blowing $100 on some “chotchkies” (definition: worthless knick-knacks). Or, she’ll send an extra hundred or two on credit card bills…not that reducing them isn’t important, but, at a time like this, we really can’t do it! But, again, it’s that CONTROL thing-do as I say, not as I do.
With regard to #2, yep, you’re always to blame…get stuck in traffic, it’s YOUR fault you went the way you did. Circumstances are meaningless, you are the problem.
You say you’re nervous in public with her…ah, the classic “walking on eggshells”. And yes, even if you don’t wind up the target of her detonation, you’re sure to be embarrassed by her behavior.
Hi RF,
I don’t have enough information to advise you one way or the other. I encourage you to read more posts here and from other resources and see if it continues to resonate.
Maybe she just has an anger management problem. Or, perhaps, she has bigger issues.
Sorry I’m not able to provide more insight.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
holy shit, i answered yes to more than half of them. here’s the next step…how the hell do i get OUT of this relationship?
Hi Scott,
Is this a rhetorical question or do you really want to know?
Best,
Dr Tara
Dr T, I second Scott’s question. I don’t think of that as rhetorical. I’d REALLY like to know some specifics. I can’t wrap my mind around the ‘break-up talk.’ Scares me to death. I’m not suffering physical violence or fearing for my safety (though a little voice does tell me to be careful), so when is it ok to just leave? Leave a note. Seems cowardly to me, but I entertain those thoughts.
Oh my god, I knew what I was dealing with was BS. My gut always told me I am doing nothing wrong and I would get angry. Then I would just think to myself, well, now you just have to deal with this until the kids get older. What a way to live, dreading almost every day except spending time with the kids. I love my kids so much 4 1/2 and 17 months. Why just last Monday I was helping at our church to move into a new building, she knew I was there, cleaning up, moving chairs, painting, etc. Then when I got home @ 8:30 got the cold shoulder. Then she woke me up at 11:30 to argue about why I was there so long. So as every other time trying to “CLEAR UP” what I was doing helping at a church mind you, she says she is moving out on Saturday.
Well she has used leaving with the kids in the past as a way to get what she wants. I have since snapped Tuesday and basically told her not to wait until Saturday to move out. My gosh, I was helping at our church. I can never do anything right, like I’m never spending time with my friends, then when I do I’m in trouble. I have been blamed for having an affair, I have been blamed for not ever wanting to go out to eat, I have been blamed for so many things, its hard to keep track.
The few days of her moving out she is already telling me I can’t see my girls. This sucks, I don’t know what to do, my emotions are all over the board. I heard a little toddler talking at the store and I wanted to cry. I hate this.
The crazyness started at the start of the relationship, I should have went with my gut feelings back then.
I am seeing a counselor provided by my work tomorrow because I don’t know what to do. I used to be so happy go lucky and high self esteem never needing a counselor in the past, and this woman has brought me to my knees.
Oh, and I answered yes to way to many of those.
I need a hug.
Thanks, dave
Hi Dave,
You need to contact some father’s rights organizations and find yourself an attorney who specializes in this. As awful as she was to you while you were together, if she’s already threatening you with your kids this early on, you need to protect yourself as best as you can. Have you spoken with your family and friends about what’s going on? I’d give them a head’s up because your ex is sure to make the rounds badmouthing you to anyone who will listen.
I’m very sorry to read about what you’ve been going through. It’s not right. Does anyone else who’s been in a similar situation have advice for Dave?
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Dave,
A threat to keep you from your children is a declaration of war. It is cruel and dirty.
Go straight to the toughest lawyer you can find. Do not pass Go, Do Not Collect $200.
JP
.
Dave I feel for you. Sounds exactly like my wife, you can NEVER do anything right in her eyes. I have not contacted ANY of my friends since my relationship with my wife (then girlfriend) for 5 years now. I only see my parents/family about once a month. If i try to see them more often, or even try calling, its all hell break loose.
If I go to a shop and the shop assistant is female, I’m accused of wanting to have an affair with that shop assistant even if I just say “Thank you”. If I got to a restaurant and I look a waitress in the eyes while ordering, my wife storms out of the place accusing me of wanting an affair or chatting up.
Then she tells me I dont take her out – you guess why!?
Now that I am always sitting at home, just yesterday she saw my playing an online war game that allowed me to chat with other players. All hell broke lose and again, I am accussed of flirting with girls. I told her to read my text conversations and her answer was she refuses to read it, if I’m not flirting just then, I was before or will in the future.
I KNOW it is not me. I was raised in a healthy, normal family. I had strong friendships and high self esteem and was always positive in outlook on life. But these days, I keep feeling bitter and starting to think dying is better if not for my ageing parents and our yet to be born baby.
These days, I am too afraid to even take a walk, or put out the garbage without letting her know in case she accuses me of seeing somebody in my few minutes of absence.
I pray to God every night for an answer, but there’s none forthcoming, at least that I can understand.
Hi ST,
Divorce is a better option than death. Protecting yourself and preserving your sanity does NOT, I repeat, NOT make you a bad guy. Another reader, John, posted recently how there is a double standard in that women who divorce abusive husbands are viewed as heroic; whereas men divorce abusive wives are viewed as spineless deserters and slimeballs.
Given this popular distortion, I think it is far more courageous for men to make this choice because they receive far less support and become the recipients of further abuse by family law and the courts.
I encourage you to stop praying to God and consult with a good attorney. Do you want to spend the next 18 years of your life like this? You owe it to yourself and to your unborn child to be a strong, healthy and happy man and parent.
Just my 2-cents.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
THIS B I G HUG to you Dave from cold England : )
Don`t worry, she`ll soon get fed up with the kids and want you around babysitting.
PS for some reason these people with BS etc are VERY VERY selfish!
Thanks for the feedback Mike911. I have a question for you and everyone. I dated my wife for 3 years before marriage and have been married for about a year. At this point she wants to have kids and I also would like children. But before I read this site I had a nagging feeling about how appropriate it would be for her to raise children with an anger problem. She even admits that she has an anger problem and says she is trying to control it but simply cannot sometimes. When I read the above I guess she is a crazy bitch if I need to ask the question as Dr. T says. But really she only has the first two issues going on and the quiz says she is a crazy bitch if she has more than 2 of the characteristics. Quite the opposite actually exists for me. She is very good about sex. She likes when I spend time away because she wants me to do what I want. She doesn’t hold any grudge about it. Etc. etc. She just has a crazy inexplicable anger problem and I am often the blame for her anger even when it makes no rational sense.
So here goes the question I am having at this time: Do I have kids with her?
Reading all of the comments I think I am walking into a mine field. I wonder if others guys were like me in that their wife/girlfriend only had the anger problem and later developed into the psycho exhibiting all the other problems on this list? I grew up in a relatively stable family and am not used to all these fights/problems. I need help/insight!
Hi RF,
I would suggest that if you’re going to stay with this woman and if you’re going to have children with her that she address her anger issues before conception. First, if you have any doubts re: staying with this woman, you probably want to think long and hard about kids. Second, her anger issues won’t get better on their own after you have a child, they’ll get worse. Kids are stressful and exhausting, which will shorten your wife’s already short fuse considerably. Saying, “I need to work on my anger problem” and doing something about it aren’t the same thing.
RF, do some more reading. There are other posts on this site. Read the ones about professional victimhood, emotional bullies, and 13 signs of being an NPD/BPD. To see if she’s really serious about working on her issues, tell her you want to see a therapist with her. Calmly explain you have some concerns re: having kids because of the conflict in your relationship and aren’t comfortable with starting a family until you both understand whats going on. Try to be as gentle and non-blaming as possible. If she flips out on you again, it doesn’t bode well for things to come.
Meanwhile, make sure she’s using birth control or you take responsibility. This is usually when “accidents” happen.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Dr. T,
I stumbled onto your website. You have given some very helpful and insightful information. I answered Yes to 6 of these questions.
Its still hard for me to imagine my wife as a BPD because she seems so passive aggressive. But then again I’ve always compared my wife to her sister, who is a truly obnoxious, histrionic, berating and self-centered slob. My wife (soon to be ex) reacts more by sulking and withdrawing affection. I’ve felt like I had to walk on eggshells around her for years, as nothing I did was enough. Just having her out of the house for the past 4 weeks has been liberating. Not coming home and worrying and stressing about what I need to do for her , “is it ok for me to go play my guitar?”, or is she going to get mad because I’m not sitting in the room with her while she watches one of her shows on TV despite being disengaged from me – freedom from this is great.
The guy who divorced her sister told me that it was like an anvil being removed from around his neck when he obtained the divorce. That he was married to a “real woman” now and life is great.
I’m actually going through the divorce right now . . . . you’re website is very helpful with moving forward and seeing some of the things I should not have put up with, but did, for over 10 years.
Thank you.
Hi John,
Thanks for the positive feedback and congratulations on removing your “anvil.” I’m sure you’ll get through the divorce process, with all its ups and downs, and appreciate your new found freedom. Once you’re finally rid of her, you’ll wonder why you waited so long.
I have a friend whose ex didn’t like it when he played the piano to relax after a stressful day. He’s apologetic about his piano playing, thanking me for “tolerating it” and “letting him” play. I love music and think it’s a gift to have it in my life. It just goes to show how sick and abusive these women are that they can’t stand it when you express your creativity and take care of or uplift yourself. They want to anchor you down in the barren wasteland with them.
Thanks again, John. I wish you the best with your new lease on life minus the ex-wife!
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Dr. T,
Thanks for the encouragement. We have two girls. I’ve read a lot of posts from guys worrying about their children. One thing I’ve learned in the past 10 weeks: the time I’ve had with my kids since this started is ten times the quality time than when my wife was around and constantly undermining me.
Whatever time you have with your children after the divorce is going to be more time with them than when you were married !!!
One thing I’m trying to come to grips with is how I let my wife treat me the way she has for so long. If someone was “coming at me” I would normally not back down from a fight or an argument. With her, she would never address anything I said substantively. I was always being told my “tone” was bad. My facial expressions were “like a kick in the stomach to her.” I remember her one time telling me that I never said anything bad, but it was the way I said it. She has had me trying to behave in a “non-defense provoking, corporate-like” manner at home for several years now.
First of all, I’m not an obnoxious, cantankerous, bullying litigator but a rather calm and quiet regulatory attorney – I don’t go to court and argue cases. I finally started to defend myself against some of her complaints – the response was “there you go again, throwing it back at me.” I could never win. She had me thinking I was crazy, an extremely difficult person to be around, and needed therapy. I ended up calling and talking to some of my friends just to ask if I’m really that difficult a person to get along with. The self doubt and self-questioning I put myself through has been very painful.
Keep up the great work. You are giving more help to people than you probably realize.
John,
After reading your posts I see a similarities between your soon to be ex and my wife.
I wonder if she might be BPD because she seems to fit the criteria but, absent the narcissistic rage. She is more likely to act like she doesn’t care whether I’m around. She’ll ignore me and spend hours watching TV or reading. This past month after I spend 5 days in Michigan, visiting my family and hunting, she barely acknowledged me when I got home. She instead talked on the phone all evening. When later questioned her about that, she said she didn’t recall acting that way that evening.
She seems to go through cycles of days or weeks where she will be cold and distant. If I ask her how she is doing your response will be a sharp “I’m fine”. If I try to kiss here she turns away from me. Then the next day she’ll be affectionate with me, sometimes to the point of being clingy.
Things can seem fine and then something will happen, I’ll say or do something that she doesn’t like, and then like flipping a switch, back to cold and distant.
I really get the feeling that I’m married to two different women. On the good days or weeks, I feel loved and am optimistic about working things out. The bad days or weeks are very lonely and it like she doesn’t care anymore.
She wasn’t always like this (or I didn’t notice. Love can blind a man.) It seems to have developed and become more acerbated over the 11 years we’ve been together. Looking back now, I can see it progress in her actions and words.
Anyway, without going into all the details, I’d really like to know, from the readers and Dr. T, are there other disorders/conditions that share similarities with BPD that develop and become worse over time?
Can some be like a BPD without being having BPD? Would that affect the way one should deal with that individual and the likelihood of healing the relationship with that person? Is she just a High-Functioning BPD?
Also, for John specifically, did your wife’s BDP-ness seem to become progressively worse over time or was it also there?
Again, John thanks your posts. Dr. T, thanks for the blog.
Hey B.E.C.,
It’s interesting how you come to this site and see posts by other guys and see a lot of the same thing over and over. It’s a great eye-opener to see that you aren’t alone and that the problems in your marriage really are not 100 percent your fault.
“Also, for John specifically, did your wife’s BDP-ness seem to become progressively worse over time or was it also there?”
Honestly, I don’t think my X is BPD (my divorce was finalized on 9/10). Sure some of her behaviors fall into the above descriptions listed by Dr. T. However, when I read the definition and diagnostic criteria of BPD I think of psychotic, over-the-top wacko devoid of reality, and she is not that. However, I could probably add a seventh because she did have this strange preoccupation with red lipsticks and would talk about her “lips” when referring to getting her red lipstick on. No kidding!!
I do believe she is a narcissist and was emotionally abusive to me. A therapist has unambiguously told me that she is a narcissist and her treatment of me was emotionally abusive and emasculating. That, the confirmation I’ve received from this site, and also talking to my family and friends (is that consensus seeking?) are enough validation for me. For me personally, I don’t feel a compelling need plug my X into a specific cluster B personality disorder to come to grips with the demise of our marriage. I did a lot of journaling; writing many of the things down that she did, talking about it with a therapist and family, comparing it to the blogs and posts on this site, and I realized how bad the marriage and treatment of me was. I don’t recall where I read this, but someone wrote something about the golden rule in reverse. Is your wife treating you the way you would treat someone else? I know mine didn’t. I’ve also learned to look in the mirror and understand that I let her act that way to me; a mistake I’m determined not to make in the future.
To answer your question more directly, I’m not sure she became “worse.” I think I became more and more drained to the point where I couldn’t give anymore. The marriage just deteriorated and once she decided it was over – it was over. I think she was all take and no give, so when I hit that point she was done. That is what she told me: “I’m done.” She never came out and said she wanted a divorce. She initiated and started the process. I had thought for years I would wait until my girls were 18 and then I would just file and have her served. She truly did me a favor; I clearly see that now. I look at some of the pictures of me over the past year (I’ve started dating and was looking for some pictures to put on an online site) and I think I look flipping crazy in some of them. It’s frankly disturbing.
Your wife’s behavior sounds very strange to me. She sounds very cold and unaffectionate. I never really thought of my X as flipping an affection switch on or off, but it is an accurate analogy. Do you have any children? I think a lot my X’s anger had to do with an inability to cope with parenting. It was as if she was just angry like a spoiled brat because she actually had to work and was not going to be taken care of by her mother now that she had children and was married. I was always jumping through hoops because whatever I did was never enough. She literally was furious that I did not get a six figure a year job so that she could stay home and not work. I think she wanted me to mother her and essentially be a co-wife. Whenever I didn’t do something or enough of whatever the hell she wanted, she would pout, sulk and withdraw. I remember her yelling at me one time “do I have to yell at you like I’m your mother in order to get you to do what I want you to do.” My X primarily sulked, pouted and withdrew affection, but I have received many ass-chewings too. Many were just bizarre and completely out of the blue. I still can’t believe I put up with that crap.
Does your wife do anything else to mess (f&%^) with you? I think many have experienced the denial of saying things, changing their stories, “twisting words like crazy pretzels.”
Does your wife have any empathy for you? For example, I have a bad back and herniated a disc 17 years ago. I stay in shape, workout and stretch regularly, which is how I keep healthy. I don’t have to take pain pills. Typically 2 or 3 times a year I will do something; pick weeds, bend over and pick up a toy or tool, twist the wrong way, and boom I’ll have spasms for 1 or 2 days. I’d sit in the recliner and use the heating pad, take some ibuprofen, stretch and get over it in a couple of days. But for one or two days I’m not jumping through hoops – now I’m not an invalid, but I’m in pain and I want and need to sit in my chair and crank the Thermafore heating pad. X would get really pissed at that and complain. “When are you going to be better? What did you do? Why did you do that? You are always doing this or you are sick? When is this going to be over, it’s making my job with the children more difficult.” The pouting, sulking and dirty looks would come on strong. Summer before last, I was really stressed by her as she wanted me to get a 6-figure job so she could stay home and not work. I was having more episodes, and even muscle spasms in my chest. Dr. T has a blog about this crap affecting you physically – I think its true. X had virtually no empathy. Nothing. Her servant was not serving and she was pissed. I can’t imagine telling my X when she was sick, having allergies, or cramps “when are you going to get better? I’m having to watch the kids, it’s making my home time difficult and I’m not getting to play my guitar.”
I’ll tell you what though, it’s great to get your “man card” back. Some of my buddies have been jacking me about that – this is a good thing brother. I went hunting in South Texas last weekend and it was GREAT! I did not worry about getting back early in order to make sure I smoothed things over because she watched the kids for two days. No pouting or that cold, distant, forlorn look on her face. That “poor me, I’m a sacrificing victim” demeanor because she was with the children for two days. Oh and the hunting was good too! Now that deer season has started, I’m going again.
Thanks for putting so much effort into your post. Your words are truly a mirror to my own experience. I had fusions done in my neck and I remember her being pissed at my recovery rate….as for getting the man card back…nothing like 5 days in Cancun-my particular celebration!
John,
We don’t have any children. We did try but lost the baby at the beginning of the year. We had issues when we went to visit my family at Thanksgiving (she was pregnant then) which ended with her wanting a divorce and demanding that I drive her to the airport or else she’d walk there in the snow. She eventually drove back from Michigan in a rental car by herself and still states that I made her do it. The next two months were rough. Her mother past away then we lost the baby. We haven’t tried again because I insisted that we start marriage consoling again and work through our issues.
I fear that if we have a child and get divorced, I will have to fight to be a part of its life. She always referred to it as “her baby” even after I repeatedly asked her to say “our baby”. When we were about to go into her doctors for the second ultrasound, she felt the need to remind me that if she wanted she could have the doctor not allow me in the room for the ultrasound and not let me see the results.
We’d been to two marriage consolers before the pregnancy both of whom, she didn’t like. We stopped going to the second consoler because my wife wanted a separation. After we left the consolers office, she changed her mind.
She has stated she wanted a divorce several times over the past four years. I’d fight to keep her and the harder I tried the meaner she got, cursing and insulting me. When I’d give up and say yes, she’d change her mind.
Finally, after another round of her wanting a divorce and then changing her mind when I said ok, I wrote her a letter telling her what I needed to make our relationship work. Part of that was that the next time she wanted a divorce, she would be it. She hasn’t said it sense although, she have been very negative about our relationship. Even when things seem to be going good and we are having a good time, she’ll make a comment about how we never have a good time together or about how we won’t make it.
My wife does say things to mess with me. An example; when at therapy, the consoler asked use why we were still together. I said that it was because I loved my wife and was committed. She said she was still with me “because it’s convenient”. I later asked her about that she said she was just saying that to hurt me. When we were have a similar discussion between the two of us and she asked me why I was still with her, I gave the same response, and when I asked that same question to here, she said she was “letting it run its course”. When I asked why she never gives love as a reason for being with me she says that I should know that she loves me and that she shouldn’t have to say it.
A lot of the times after she says something that makes me think “WTF?, I’ll give her some space and try to bring it up at a later time. But, by the time she’s willing to talk she says she doesn’t remember it or that she’s over it by then. End of conversation.
It feels like she doesn’t apply the same standard to her behavior that she does to mine. She’ll make remarks about my mother in front of others but I can’t even ask her sister (who is no living with us) to not park on the grass without my wife telling me that that I’d better be polite when I do it. She can make fun where I’m from (Michigan) all she wants but I can’t say anything about where she is from (Haiti) without her getting defensive and argumentative.
She’ll often complain I don’t do something, such as house work, talking to her, my weight, taking her out, talking to her, etc. Once I make progress on the issue she is complaining of, she’ll start on the next.
One day, while she was complaining out us not going out enough, I suggested multiple things that we could together (Art exhibition, museum, movies, etc). She rejected my suggestion and later asked why I didn’t want to take her out.
As for empathy, it comes and goes with her affection. Sometimes should very caring but others she won’t. If I have a sore back and ask her for a back run she’ll respond, “What’s in it for me?” Other times it like she has to try uncaring. She’ll start to do something nice for me and then stop and say, “Why the hell am I doing that?”
She says that I don’t do anything for her but, every time I try to do something, she doesn’t want me to and usual says something along the lines of “No, you shouldn’t have to” or “It’s not your job”. When I do something (like fixing the toilet) and point it out to her, her response is that she never asked me to do it or that it doesn’t count because I something I should be doing anyways or that she could have hired somebody to do it.
She’ll often become angry or cold towards me if I spend more than a few hours with my friends or pursuing my hobbies. I.e. she’ll get mad when, once a month, I shot in a match at my gun club, which will last until about 2PM on a Sunday. On the day that I volunteered to enter the scores into the computer (at home), she kept asking when they were giving me for doing that and she said that I’d rather do that then spend time with her.
When we go out to my friends or see family, she is withdrawn and quiet. People ask me if there something wrong or if they said something to offend her. If it’s her friends and family, then she if very outgoing and talkative. When I asked her about this, she said that it was just the way she was and that I should learn to accept it.
I’ve been keeping a journal since January, to try to help me to sort things out. It’s interesting to see the way she transitions from cold & distant to the next day warm and friendly like nothing even happened.
Thanks for the feedback. Just writing this helps me to straighten things out in my mind.
Hey B.E.C
In one of your posts you said ‘I fear that if we have a child and get divorced, I will have to fight to be a part of its life’.
HERE IS WHY NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN WITH A BPD/NPD – I’m a living example.
Before I was locked out of the house last year my child was removed for a week and I was told to leave the house if I wanted to see my not yet 3 year old girl.
After I was locked out of the house some time later I had to go to court to gain any access at all after going 7 weeks and missing my daughter’s 3rd birthday – not even a phone call.
Before I had court ordered access my ex was telling everyone who would listen to her that I was a ‘flight threat’. Complete BS.
Since then I can not get any cooperation at all or any time other than the court ordered time with my now 4 year old.
I was unemployed this past summer and so I had plenty of time and saw my daughter a grand total of 12 days.
Recently I was told by my ex that ‘I’m getting all the access I am entitled to’.
My 4 year old daughter has made comments to me like – I have two dads now. I don’t have a home with you dad I just visit you I only have one home. And my favourite – dad, mom says all the stuff at my home is hers now. Still trying to figure out why she won’t return my underwear and winter boots.
I went at 2:45 pm to a 3:00pm Junior Kindergarten appointment and my ex was getting ready to leave – she had intentionally gone early to try to prevent me from seeing my daughter and participating in her education.
The other day dance class was canceled because the teacher was sick but even though my ex knows I drive 20km to go she didn’t call me to let me know. Of course as I am told biweekly – ‘I don’t have to do anything’.
I can not even get a phone call through to my daughter despite calling every weekend I don’t have her for almost a year now.
I could go on and on. And I won’t even get into the horrible BS that goes on in family court.
DO NOT HAVE A CHILD WITH THIS KIND OF WOMAN – DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN.
The joy is my daughter and I are closer than ever, my time with her is focused on her and we enjoy every second. I saw this crap coming and actually sacrificed work, my life to make sure I spent as much time with my little one and build a strong relationship.
Sadly at just over 4 years my daughter is already starting to resent her mother. I can’t imagine what things will be like when she is older – other than she will likely be living with her dad at 10 or 11.
Dr T
This is so sad. I used to enjoy music and arts. These days if I express that I like such things, my wife comes out with “why? Who are you seeing?”. I enjoy learning new things, new languages and when I comment on wanting to learn something new she’ll say “Why? Are you seeing someone or need to impress someone?”
WHY is she behaving like this? Read my other posts, WHY is she like this? I can’t understand it. If she is so insecure yet so controlling, what is the point of being in a relationship at all?
Hi ST,
WHY is she behaving like this? Read my other posts, WHY is she like this? I can’t understand it. If she is so insecure yet so controlling, what is the point of being in a relationship at all?
A woman like your wife will only tolerate you having one interest; her. Friendships, family and leisure pursuits are seen as threats to her control and divert your complete attention away from her.
She doesn’t want a mutual relationship. She’s not capable of it. She wants and obedient handpuppet. Furthermore, even if you surrender your b@lls and totally submit to her dictates, she’ll then criticize you for having no backbone.
The only way to win is to stop playing. You need to make a choice about the kind of life you want and the kind of relationship you want to model for your child.
Best,
Dr T
My son is with a woman who exhibits all the above traits (except for the lipstick one). He thinks he is in control because he’s learned to walk away whenever she gets upset — which is more and more frequent. He barricades himself in his room downstairs with the door locked, goes for a walk, or to a movie. She had been reeling him back in with niceness or aking cookies, but I feel those times are waning. None of us in the family can figure out “why” he would want to stay in such an abusive woman who is jealous, manipulative, and who is always criticizing him or getting mad and going into a rage!! Interestingly enough, the more he blocks her out, the more she seems to try to get into a fight with him. They’re going to counseling, but she finds fault with that constantly and doesn’t want to go. I feel it’s a matter of time before she’ll refuse to go. She attacks everything about him and their relationship (or lack of a relationship!).
Hi Janice,
I’m sorry to read about what your son and your family is going through because of his girlfriend. She probably tries to fight with him when he blocks her out because many of these women use conflict and anger to hook you in. They accuse you of crazy things and you defend yourself, which only prolongs the insanity.
The only defense is to walk away and stay away. Unfortunately, I don’t think counseling will help. These women often use therapy to blame and shame their partners into submission with the help of a bad therapist. And, if you should happen to find a good therapist who holds this kind of woman, she finds fault with the therapist and stops going.
You have my sympathy and sincere wish that your son comes to his senses very soon.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
I have 3 quick ones… they’re funny now since i’m out of the relationship, but they rattled around in my skull when they were happening.
1 – we’d be talking about some thing, and if my mindset was not completely in sync with hers (agreeing 100% with whatever she was saying), she’d snap at me, saying “don’t roll your eyes at me”. WTF? ummm…. i haven’t been 5 years old in a LONG time. trying to convince her that i kept eye contact the whole time, and that her accusation was completely unfounded, was like trying to teach calculus to a goldfish.
2 – so then the conversation would start to turn sour, and she’d accuse me of saying (x, y, z). of course i never said any of it, and would tell her so. so would then try to defend it, not even entertaining the possibility that she could have been mistaken. at which time i would calmly say, “no, i didn’t say that, not even close. you know how i know? because i’ve never even thought it”. at which point she would cross her arms and stare at the wall and pout… or fume.
3 – one night all of the planets aligned, and i got the opportunity to ask her that if i just simply gave in to anything she wanted and never stood my ground, would she would label me as a wimp and lose all respect for me as a man. and her answer was yes. i couldn’t beleive i actually got a thoughtful, insightful answer from her. but it was proof that no matter what i did, there would never be any peace.
the point of these snippets is that there never was a correct answer. i would be accused of being a heartless, self-centered bastard if i disagreed with her, or a complete wimp if i agreed with her. and it didn’t matter what i said, what stance i took in any given conversation or subject matter. she could have a sock puppet on her hand, call it my name, and i would take the brunt of a conversation that i was never a part of. it really was all in her head.
cue the circus music…
I had the exact same things happen to me with 1 and 2. I never tried #3.
The more I look back at these sorts of no-win scenarios, the more I’m convinced it was never about the answers (there are no right answers, as well you know), but more about her getting an attention fix. By bait and switch questioning, and the absence of right answers, she can play the game all night (and she often did, for nights in a row, despite knowing I had to go to work the next morning).
In addition to the attention you’re giving her, by playing these games, she gets the added benefits of (a) sapping all of your energy, and systematically destroying your defenses, and (b) getting you into a state of learned helplessness, where you become continuously more pliant.
Sometimes, I think it wasn’t even about her demands, but more about her enjoying the show of making her puppet dance.
Ah, good times.
Not.
they’re an attention junkie. the narcissistic supply really is like a drug. if they don’t get their fix, they act out, cause a scene, create falsehoods, manufacture drama, and then point the finger at everyone else but them. they will never take responsibility for the actions and words they use to manipulate. to them… the end justifies the means. it’s about winning at all costs, obtaining that fix. just like an addict… you can’t help them until they’re willing to help themselves. and if they don’t see it as any type of problem, then they will not change, no matter how devastating it is to them and to anyone that loves them. very sad but true…
for a guy that really cares deeply… it was a very tough lesson to learn.
Hi Kev and Freedom,
What these women do is far more toxic than putting you in a no-win, damned if you do-damned if you don’t situation. It’s a far more subversive variation called a double bind, a concept developed by anthropologist, Gregory Bateson:
“The double bind is often misunderstood to be a simple contradictory situation, where the victim is trapped by two conflicting demands. While it is true that the core of the double bind is two conflicting demands, the differences lie in how they are imposed on the victim, what the victim’s understanding of the situation is and finally, who (or what) imposes these demands upon the victim. Unlike the usual no-win situation, the victim is largely unaware of the exact nature of the paradoxical situation in which he or she is. The contradiction may be entirely invisible in its immediate context and therefore invisible to external observers, only becoming evident when some broader context is considered. Typically, a demand is imposed upon the victim by someone who they respect (a parent, teacher or doctor), but the demand itself is inherently impossible to fulfill, because some broader context forbids it. Bateson and colleagues defined the double bind as follows (paraphrased):
1. The situation involves two or more people, one of whom (for the purpose of definition), is designated as the “victim.” The others are people who are considered the victim’s superiors: figures of authority (such as parents), whom the victim respects.
2. Repeated experience: the double bind is a recurrent theme in the experience of the victim, and as such, cannot be resolved as a single traumatic experience.
3. A “primary injunction” is imposed on the victim by the others in one of two forms:
* (a) “Do X, or I will punish you”;
* (b) “Do not do X, or I will punish you.”
The punishment is assumed to be either the withdrawing of love, the expression of hate and anger, or abandonment resulting from the authority figure’s expression of helplessness.
1. A “secondary injunction” is imposed on the victim, conflicting with the first at a higher and more abstract level. For example: “You must do X, but only do it because you want to.” It is unnecessary for this injunction to be expressed verbally.
2. If necessary, a “tertiary injunction” is imposed on the victim to prevent them from escaping the dilemma.
3. Finally, Bateson states that the complete list of the previous requirements may be unnecessary, in the event that the victim is already viewing their world in double bind patterns. Bateson goes on to give the general characteristics of such a relationship:
1. When the victim is involved in an intense relationship; that is, a relationship in which he feels it is vitally important that he discriminate accurately what sort of message is being communicated so that he may respond appropriately;
2. And, the victim is caught in a situation in which the other person in the relationship is expressing two orders of message and one of these denies the other;
3. And, the victim is unable to comment on the messages being expressed to correct his discrimination of what order of message to respond to: i.e., he cannot make a metacommunicative statement.
Thus, the essence of a double bind is two conflicting demands, each on a different logical level, neither of which can be ignored or escaped. This leaves the victim torn both ways, so that whichever demand they try to meet, the other demand cannot be met. “I must do it, but I can’t do it” is a typical description of the double bind experience.
For a double bind to be effective, the victim must fail to see that the demand placed by the primary injunction conflicts with that of the secondary injunction. In this sense, the double bind differentiates itself from a simple contradiction to a more inexpressible internal conflict, where the victim really wants to meet the demands of the primary injunction, but fails each time through failing to see the situation’s incompatibility with the demands of the secondary injunction. Thus, victims may express feelings of extreme anxiety in such a situation, as they attempt to fulfill the demands of the primary injunction albeit with obvious contradictions in their actions.”
The fact that most of these women do this instinctively without premeditation is pretty frightening.
Best,
Dr T
it was all quite silly when it was happening, but it wasn’t a damned bit funny.
Ouch I too agree. This was performed many times to flawless perfection on me as well. Ouch, OUCH!
Dr. T, tell me if this is a good example of a double bind.
Let’s take something as simple a dinner. In the past few days, you’ve made steak, chicken, pork chops, and seafood. Today, you’re discussing dinner with your BPD, and they say “I’m sick of everything”. OK, so you suggest that you go out to eat…then you get the “we can’t afford it” statement.
Now you’re screwed either way…can’t cook at home, because “they’re sick of everything”…can’t go out to eat, as “we can’t afford it”. Either way, you’re never gonna hear the end of it…
Hi Mike91163,
Yes, this is a good example of a classic double bind situation. Double binds induce a sense of powerless and learned helplessness, which weaken you and make you more susceptible to her abuse and control.
Hope this helps,
Dr Tara
Very very frightening, indeed.
Actually, I have to laugh, because up until your last sentence, I was thinking “she’s not that talented to plot this all out in advance.” But you’re right. It’s instinctive, and on the fly. Amazing.
Thank you for this. It only helps explain things more and more.
In terms of “he cannot make a metacommunicative statement,” any attempts I made were met with continuous frustration, argument, rage, subterfuge, and misdirection. I was suddenly the “bad guy” for “attacking” poor, helpless, her.
I’m almost at 8 months no contact.
Life returns a bit more each day.
Kev, 8 months no contact and life is returning?!….that scares the crap out of me. 8 months and this is still not history for you. I am finding it real tough I admit and am now 14 days (yes Im counting them!) away from her, only 4 days without hearing from her. I know I must must must get away from her and I am trying, but 8 months?!! oh god….
Hey Simon…
Just saw your reply now, my apologies for not responding sooner. Yeah, it was 8 months when I posted that. I’m now at almost a year. Things are progressing. Is my life entirely back? No. But I am better, and stronger than I’ve been in a long, long time.
I was in the relationshit (not a typo) for about a year. She broke me in half, and did her best to destroy the bits and pieces that were left over. Yet, I’m coming through it, through therapy, and, honestly, this site, and my interactions here.
I don’t know how long you were in the war zone yourself. And, I’m sure it’s safe to say “your mileage may vary” in terms of getting over and through things. Healing comes, and it comes at the speed we need it to.
I have no doubt that you’ll get through this, too, brother. Just don’t rush it. Take the time to put your stuff in order. That way, the next relationshiP will be that much more fulfilling.
best to you,
-Kev.
Hi Kev,
This is great advice for everyone. I believe that the more positive things you add to your life after shedding one of these women will help to accelerate the healing process.
My very best to both you and Simon.
Kind Regards,
Dr T
Just think of her as a bottle of poison…because poison is what they are and yet to all others they can function quite normally.
Simon, Kev
I’m at 4 months no contact. THAT IS THE BEST THING I COULD HAVE DONE! I have kids so it’s very tough, but there are ways. We communicate through the (home environment) Day Care people and through our lawyers. If I can recommend one thing to better health AND better recognition to what you were in, then it’s
!!!!!!!!!!!! NO CONTACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just (and I mean 1 minute ago) got a text message from my (STB)ex’s mother. It was actually addressed to my son, but I KNOW IT WAS SENT BY HER. She wanted to know what he was doing for New Year’s Eve? WTF?!!?!
It was very very hard not to reply with a smart remark, but as Dr T’s articles say, “No Contact” means NO CONTACT. NONE. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA.
“No contact is for our own recovery of health.” I read that in one Dr T’s articles or a commenter’s blog. THAT IS THE KEY. I realize now that the only way to recover my health is no contact. I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to have 12 months NC under my belt. Kev, tell me it’s not that hard. Lately I’ve been fantasizing calling or visiting my ex, and I know that is VERY BAD!
Comments?
Recovering Alpha – 12 months is a good goal. :) I’m about 6 hours and 11 minutes away from the 12 month marker as I type this.
Yes, I’m being that exact about it. :)
Yes, it gets easier with time, and distance. As you’ve said, you are in a better place than you were 4 months ago. Remember that each day. Remember that when you hit 5 months. Remember that when you hit 6 months.
When you feel the nostalgia come on, remember what she did to you. Remember the fights. The belittling. The snide comments. The cold shoulder. Remember how she made you feel like a criminal and unworthy of even the slightest bit of affection.
Do you really want to continue those conversations with her? Because they WILL continue, if you resume contact. I suspect you don’t, so don’t.
When you feel the urge to contact again, DISTRACT YOURSELF. Put on some music. Read a book. Go for a walk. Call a friend, or a family member instead. Have them meet you for coffee, or a drink. It’s okay to confide in someone you trust about what you’re going through, and ask them to help you find something else to occupy your time and mind.
You may think “this time might be different!” This time she might act kindly towards you. This time she might admit or acknowledge her mistakes.
It won’t be. She won’t. She can’t. If she does, she’s lying.
NO CONTACT. NONE. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA.
It gets easier with time. There will be good days, there will be bad days. You have kids in the mix, and it will be tough. There may be accidental contact. Learn to discern what is a manufactured emergency where she tries to get you to engage. The text message you received may have indeed been accidental, but as you said, it may have been something more.
DO NOT ENGAGE THE ENEMY. DO NOT FEED THE BORDERLINES (or Narcissists either, for that matter).
I’m not in any 12 step programs, but when things get bad, I adopt the “one day at a time” approach. If the future seems daunting (and at 4 months out, it still will at times), concentrate on the here and now. This moment. The next moment. The moment after that.
It may also seem like an appealing idea to gloat to her and say “look how far I’ve come! Look how much I’m over you!”
DON’T.
NO CONTACT. NONE. DO NOT ENGAGE. DO NOT FEED THE BORDERLINES.
You don’t need her approval. She’s never going to give it to you anyway.
You may have already lost some, or you may yet lose some friends in this whole process. Be prepared for that. It’s okay. It sucks, but it’s okay. You’re going to find out who truly loves you and is willing to stick by you in this whole thing.
Hang in there, and have a safe, happier New Year, and remember: NO CONTACT. :)
6 hours, 1 minute to go now. :)
Be well, and good luck!
Hello Recovering Alpha, Simon & Kev,
I just wanted to say a BIG Congratulations & how it is so good to see posts of this positive nature with you all going NO CONTACT! You should all be so proud of yourselves! I do not even know you & I am proud of you all! :-) Stay strong/no contact & Happy New Year with your new found freedom! Good Luck & All My Best. Happy New Year Everyone.
thank you. :)
It means a lot. And I promise you, I’m not just saying that.
I was married to a Borderline Personality Disordered woman for 8 years, at first
I was very confidant, had many friends, very happy but as time went on life
got strange, she tried to destroy all other relationships I had with other
people, borrowed money from everyone including employer, than filed for
bankruptcy, we got divorced, I was very frightened she was going to kill
herself, she threatened to kill me if I let her ex-husband know about
her behavior because she thought she would lose custody of her daughter,
life was a nightmare I barely kept my job and belongings, it took years
to recover financially. After 3 years I felt like I had before I meet her,
very happy, healthy, lots of friends, many girl friends, eventually I got
married and have 2 great kids and loving wife. I had no contact with her
in 14 years though we lived in same town, last week she walked just outside
of the city limits and shot herself dead, she was a school teacher. I
was shocked and thinking about her brings back all the sadness and confusion
and memories of her peculiar behavior, I am mostly angry at her for doing
it to herself. Fourteen years ago I felt like I was the main actor in a
Alfred Hitchcock movie, I would awake thinking I was coming out of a bad
dream and realize it was for real. There is a lot of effort to try
and ‘cure’ people with borderline personality but they cause more suffering
to the world than they can feel themselves. I feel so fortunate to
have my life back.
I would feel better about ascertaining my situation if I heard one thing. I constantly question whether or not I am the messed up one. Am I controlling, demanding, explosive, jealous, trivial, decietful, etc…
Of course, I don’t just “want to hear it,” but does anyone else think this way often? Maybe I have a problem with BPD(now that I have learned what it is). I don’t think I am any of these things, but “let he that lives in a glass house…” Maybe I play the victim. I don’t know anymore. So, is it just me??? Heck, I guess if it was, it would be a feeling of elation. Then, I just go seek the help that is needed, without depending on someone else making that decision for themselves!!!
Mark, the mere fact that you mention that “Maybe I have a problem with BPD…” means that you probably do NOT have BPD. Spend a bit of time browsing this wonderful site, and others on the Internet, and you’ll quickly discover that the VAST majority of BPD/NPDs utterly refuse to acknowledge that they have a problem. The BPD person might look at these sites and say “It’s not me! It’s my spouse/significant other/parents/friends/etc. who has a problem!”
What you are suffering (and it is suffering!) from is PROJECTION. Read throughout here how BPDs “project” their feelings and thoughts upon YOU. All of us have those characteristics you mentioned (controlling, demanding, etc.) to one degree or another…BUT, in the BPD’s world, they are perfect, YOU are the problem. For example, if you work as a manager, you may be perceived (right or wrong) as demanding…well, in some cases, you may have goals set by higher mgmt. to meet, and therefore must expect certain things out of your underlings. We all might be somewhat jealous of pro sports players who make barrels full of cash. HOWEVER, while your jealousy level might be a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10, in the BPD’s world, they crank it all the way to 11!
Your feelings are 10000% in line with what all of us who deal with a BPD person feel most of the time…that we’re wrong, and this occurs because you’re constantly having this “wrong-ness” being reinforced by the BPD person. BPDs are very skilled at taking the most secure, happy, and smart person and beating them (both verbally, mentally, and sometimes physically) into a meek, wussy shell of themselves.
With regard to “playing the victim”, you have to look back at how you behaved PRIOR to your current relationship…if “bad” things happened in your personal or professional lives, and you “shrugged it off”, but now play the “poor me” game, then NO, you are not “playing the victim”; this is what your BPD person has done to you.
Your 2nd sentence is very revealing…almost to a person, we have ALL felt this way at one time or another in our BPD relationships…just take some time to browse through reply posts and you’ll easily see this pattern. Websites like Dr. Tara’s help you realize that you are NOT ALONE, and that you CAN get through this and escape, and have the chance to rebuild yourself.
Good luck!!!!
Mark,
A relationship with a crazy person, by its very nature, leaves you doubting your own sanity, sense of reality and character.
Of course nobody on this site can confirm with 100% certainty that you are NOT crazy, which is why you need a trusted advisor–a friend or therapist–with whom you can discuss your feelings and experiences and get a reality check when you need one.
This is especially key if you’re the kind of guy who doesn’t have a lot of confidence in his own reality in general. People who doubt their own reality testing often come from families with a lot of craziness in them and they grow up wondering if they’re a bit crazy too. Then, if they get involved with a wingnut, they’re never quite sure if the girlfriend/spouse is nutty of if they themselves are. This is a tough place to be, and it’s the kind of achilles’ heel that a BPD/NPD lover will instinctively exploit.
It gets even more dicey if you do in fact have a minor mental health issue. Say, for the sake of discussion, that you have mild depression for which you take an anti-depressant. Once you admit this to your BPD/NPD lover it’s likely she will never take your feelings or opinions seriously, dismissing them instead with comments like “have you forgotten to take your medication again?”
In other words, even if you DO have some kind of mental health issue, it doesn’t necessarily follow that she’s NOT crazy and destructive.
And in any case, you don’t have to be perfect to expect to be treated lovingly in your relationship. When healthy people love you they’ll happily tolerate all kinds of faults and quirks.
JP
The chances are it’s not just you. Like Mike91163 points out, the fact that you’re willing to look at your own behavior with such honesty
Oops…sorry for that last fragment.
I was gonna say, the fact that you’re willing to look honestly at your own behavior suggests that whatever is going with you, the chances are it is NOT a personality disorder along the lines of BPD/NPD.
JP
Hey jp, you NAILED me with one comment: “…have you forgotten to take your medication again?” I have posted elsewhere about my wife’s problems with me taking opiate pain meds for severe chronic pain due to rheumatoid arthritis. Anyway, I’ve been off of them for the past 7 months (at her “request”), and just recently went to my primary care doctor with her in tow for advice re: pain mgmt. Well, long story short, he was no help…but, we’re going to try Lyrica, which is used almost exclusively for fibromyalgia or neuropathic pain–neither of which I have, but, we’ll try it anyway.
So, I’ve been on it for a week or so now, and the other day, the wife got pissed with me because I forgot something she told me the day before. I got the “are you taking pain meds again?” speech, and the “I hope this medicine is causing problems…”
Very calmly, I say “Hon, in the past 6 months, not being on ANY medication, have I NEVER forgotten anything that you’ve said to me?” (And yes, I do forget things…I guess it’s the old selective hearing bit or “tuning her out”) There was nothing but COMPLETE SILENCE on the other end…of course, I then got “I gotta go now”…and, the rest of the day, while she wasn’t a total bitch, I got the “cool” treatment.
Like Jack Nicholson said in “Men of Honor”: “The truth? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!”
I do have one question – where did you hide the camera in my house?
If I can answer yes to all but one do I win a prize or something?
Yes, Matt—the booby prize!