13 Signs Your Wife or Girlfriend is a Borderline or a Narcissist
My girlfriend / wife isn’t a Borderline/Narcissist. She’s just emotional. Maybe, maybe not. Common terms describing what shrinks refer to as Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder include: Crazy bitch, whack job, Fatal Attraction, nutcase, psycho chick, Emo, emotional, moody, mood swings, castrating, irrational, needy, clingy, and/or labile.
Borderline Personality Disorder isn’t as mainstream in public awareness as other psychiatric diagnoses, but it’s a very real problem that affects many individuals and the people who are in ongoing relationships with them or trying to end relationships with them.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a kissing cousin of BPD. There is usually some overlap between the two. Most people think being a narcissist means that you’re conceited or vain–there’s a lot more to it.
Men are typically accused of being insensitive and out of touch with their feelings. We rarely talk about women who emotionally abuse the men they claim to love. There are different reasons why this is a silent epidemic:
a) Society and psychology hold a reverse sexist attitude regarding the perpetrators and recipients of emotional abuse.
b) Men have been brainwashed into believing that “she’s just expressing her feelings” when she’s being abusive and that “he’s insensitive and doesn’t understand.” Unfortunately, many mental health professionals perpetuate this phenomenon through their own gender biases. Should these men enter into couples treatment, they often get tag teamed by their girlfriend/wife and the therapist into believing they’re the problem. Should this couple actually find a shrink worth his/her salt that confronts the Borderline/Narcissist, said shrink is duly fired and vilified by the BPD/NPD, but quick.
c) Men are too embarrassed to talk about the hurt, pain and confusion they experience as a result of the way these women mistreat them.
Warning: Being involved with a Borderline or a Narcissist May Be Hazardous to Your Mental Health
Still not convinced the woman you love has Borderline or Narcissistic personality traits? Here are some common side effects of being involved with a Borderline and/or a Narcissist:
1) Censoring your thoughts and feelings. You edit it yourself because you’re afraid of her reactions. Swallowing the lump in your throat and your hurt and anger is easier than dealing with another fight or hurt feelings. In fact, you may have stuffed your own emotions for so long that you no longer know what you think or feel. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
2) Everything is your fault. You’re blamed for everything that goes wrong in the relationship and in general, even if it has no basis in reality. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
3) Constant criticism. She criticizes nearly everything you do and nothing is ever good enough. No matter how hard you try, there’s no pleasing her or, if you do, it’s few and far between. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
4) Control freak. She engages in manipulative behaviors, even lying, in an effort to control you. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
5) Dr Jekyll and Ms Hyde. One moment she’s kind and loving; the next she’s flipping out on you. She becomes so vicious, you wonder if she’s the same person. The first time it happens, you write it off. Now, it’s a regular pattern of behavior that induces feelings of depression, anxiety, helplessness and/or despair within you. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
6) Your feelings don’t count. Your needs and feelings, if you’re brave enough to express them, are ignored, ridiculed, minimized and/or dismissed. You’re told that you’re too demanding, that there’s something wrong with you and that you need to be in therapy. You’re denied the right to your feelings. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD although, BPDs are slightly more capable of empathy than NPDs).
7) Questioning your own sanity. You’ve begun to wonder if you’re crazy because she puts down your point of view and/or denies things she says or does. If you actually confide these things to a friend or family member, they don’t believe you because she usually behaves herself around other people. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
8) Say what? “But I didn’t say that. I didn’t do that.” Sure you did. Well, you did in her highly distorted version of reality. Her accusations run the gamut from infidelity to cruelty to being un-supportive (even when you’re the one paying all the bills) to repressing her and holding her back. It’s usually bull, which leaves you feeling defensive and misunderstood. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
9) Isolating yourself from friends and family. You distance yourself from your loved ones and colleagues because of her erratic behavior, moodiness and instability. You make excuses for her inexcusable behaviors to others in an effort to convince yourself that it’s normal. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
10) Walking on landmines. One misstep and you could set her off. Some people refer to this as “walking on eggshells,” but eggs emit only a dull crunch when you step on them. Setting off a landmine is a far more descriptive simile. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
11) What goes up, must come down. She places you on a pedestal only to knock it out from under your feet. You’re the greatest thing since sliced bread one minute and the next minute, you’re the devil incarnate. (This is a BPD trait).
12) Un-level playing field. Borderlines and Narcissists make the rules; they break the rules and they change the rules at will. Just when you think you’ve figured out how to give her what she wants, she changes her expectations and demands without warning. This sets you up for failure in no-win situations, leaving you feeling helpless and trapped. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
13) You’re a loser, but don’t leave me. “You’re a jerk. You’re a creep. You’re a bastard. I love you. Don’t leave me.” When you finally reach the point where you just can’t take it anymore, the tears, bargaining and threats begin. She insists she really does love you. She can’t live without you. She promises to change. She promises it will get better, but things never change and they never get better.
When that doesn’t work, she blames you and anything and anyone else she can think of, never once taking responsibility for her own behaviors. She may even resort to threats. She threatens that you’ll never see the kids again. Or she threatens to bad mouth you to your friends and family. She’s a lovely lady. (This is a trait of both BPD and NPD).
Tomorrow, I’ll post a follow-up blog in which I explain why this emotional abuse and what you can do about it.
by Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Private Consultation and Coaching
I provide confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services via telephone and/or Skype chat. Please visit my Contact page for professional inquiries.
Related posts:
- 5 Ways to Avoid Becoming Involved with Another Crazy, Emotionally Abusive Borderline or Narcissistic Woman
- The Emotionally Abused Man: When Love Hurts
- Is She a Crazy Bitch? A Quiz
- How to Deal with a Borderline Woman
- 13 Signs your Wife or Girlfriend is a Borderline or Narcissist
- Is your Girlfriend or Wife a Professional Victim?
Photo credits:
BPD-1 byPushkia on flickr.
Spin-the-mood-wheel by MashGet on flickr.
Stumble It!
Borderline? Check
Narcissist? Check
Psychopath? Maybe
She was very scary
is it possible some of these characteristics described in this blog could be from the loss of trust due to an incident of infedility? The fear of being hurt again? Or the possiblity that the man is like this too? I feel that I have and know lots of women that behave this way but usually its after something to the effect of the other person cheating or lying etc.
You have written a lot about how to point out these traits etc. But what if your the woman and you act like this but you want to stop and you know that its not a good habit. Is there away to deal with anxiety? What if you dont want to control you want to be relaxed and let your man be himself. Can you give advice for this?
I have read alot of your blogs and you do have points but not every woman who has these problems wants to be this way and they truly do love their boyfriend/husband. Can you help the woman that feel this way?
lemme ask, you are the way you are as a woman (and an abuser) because He did something to you first??
Exhibit A:
Hi helloquestion,
If a husband/boyfriend screws up once, does that make it okay to torture him for the rest of his life? Do you equate love with controlling someone? If you can’t trust your husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend, whether it’s for good reason (i.e., you’ve caught him or her red-handed) or because you have some vague obsessive suspicion, and find yourself lashing out at him or her, ask yourself why you’re in the relationship.
If you don’t trust your partner, end the relationship. It’s not okay to abuse someone even if he or she has violated your trust. If you or anyone else can’t control your behaviors—e.g., “you act like this but want to stop”—find a therapist and prepare to do some honest, hard and painful work. You deal with anxiety by facing your fears and dealing with them; not by taking it out on someone else.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Helloquestion (and Dr. T):
Dr. T’s quote: “If a husband/boyfriend screws up once, does that make it okay to torture him for the rest of his life?” is DEAD on the money…and from my standpoint, the “screw up” has NOTHING to do with fidelity.
The term “walking on eggshells” (or landmines, as the good Doctor more properly describes) applies 24/7/365, REGARDLESS of the perceived transgression, no matter how miniscule it might be. Example? I was taken to task and excoriated by my wife because I spent $40 on a kitchen drainboard, simply because it was $10 more than the one SHE would have bought. True story…
Because BPD/NPD women have such “splitting” issues, and lack any kind of perspective, us husbands/BFs have resorted to saying nothing…which, to these women, is just as bad, if not worse, than telling a big fat lie.
“Loss of trust…” yeah, that’s a good one…I’ve heard that many times. But, the problem is, I could tell one little meaningless fib to avoid a massive eruption over something impossibly minor, then spend the next 6 months “rebuilding” (snort) said “trust”, and then if I don’t tell her something about an unrelated issue, BOOM!–6 months of “good behavior” go right out the window…again, simply because they have no sense of perspective.
Now, lather, rinse, and repeat this over a long period of time (in my case, 20yrs), and you can see why us guys tend to “clam up” and say very little…
You also say “and they truly do love their boyfriend/husband.” I honestly believe that my wife loves me. HOWEVER, as Dr. Tara said, “Do you equate love with controlling someone?” If so, that is NOT a relationship based on love; rather, it’s a “master / subordinate” transactional relationship, much like you and your boss at work. And, I did not get married to become someone’s slave, particularly when there’s ZERO reciprocity in ANY format.
It’s reassuring to hear you ask for advice; but, keep in mind that many BPD/NPD women simply cannot acknowledge that THEY have a problem. This aspect is why, as Dr. T addresses in her “Couples Counseling” blog post, counseling does NOT work.
helloquestion
My feelings are that if you really want to get control of your emotions and vicious pavlovian responses to kindness ? To love ? and make something of yourself and the relationship ? You will and you’ll leave you sick but comfortable position, and quit being a victim who has turned volunteer and be responsible for your actions. If you ultimately love him and yourself ? you will do it. You will go to any means to acomplish it. You will be a stayer and not a player. Own your own shit first and work on you rather than defocusing on him. How honest are you ?????? do you really want this to change or are you just lip sinking ?
Hiya Bryce,
Sometimes it’s difficult to tease out exactly what’s going on, diagnostically speaking. The cluster B disorders lie on a continuum. Depending upon the individual’s level of functioning and emotional age, sometimes the BPD behaviors are more dominant than the NPD behaviors.
However, people with BPD tend to present as more fragile and vulnerable than people with NPD. It’s a little easier to feel more sympathetic toward a person with BPD because they’re just swimming in so much internal chaos, until inevitably that chaos spills over and bites you on the backside. NPDs rarely show vulnerability, unless they want something or are trying to control you, but it always comes back to bite you in the end.
Thanks for reading and commenting. I’m always happy to hear from you.
Best,
Dr T
It would be so awesome if I could show this to my BPD NPD “girlfriend”… but of course, it would be a “no-win” situation that would probably dig me in deeper; probably best to keep it to myself and utilize it appropriately without getting caught, lol.
Hi Andrew,
The only advice I have regarding relationships with NPDs/BPDs is to get out and stay out. End all contact. Figure out what attracts you to abusive women and then break the pattern.
Best,
Dr T
But what will be with taht person (girlfriend) who have NPD and BPD. As i understood evrybody will be breaking and NPD/BPD person will be living all life in cycle of breaking up! I need real advice how fix that, cause i don’t want to leave my GF on a side of the road, even if my relationship will be over, how can i help to change that so she wont be doing that to others and another relationship will be working out with her. I just dont want to leave the person alone with her problem, cause she needs help. I will sacrifice myself or whatever it needs just to help her so she can be normal and live happy.
And if somebody know free(dont have lot of money) hotline where i can call and talk about this so they can give me advise what to do and where to go, cause it should be some therapy or something. Cause she is a good person, I belive in that, i dont want to see her destroying her life, cause it’s realy destructive for her also.
Do these people ever have moments of absolute clarity? moments of personal revelation, a moment where the lightbulb flicks on and they actually realize all that they have put someone thru? and if so, how does this affect them? i would think that it would be so hard on someone if they actually realized all the destruction that they caused. maybe, in that regard, is that why they still keep playing the victim because it’s too hard to take responsibility for that much damage. and, perhaps, even harder to try to make amends for that destruction. kinda like an addict who has that moment of clarity, the moment of rock bottom, where they look around and see that their life is in shambles, but rather than climb their way back out and try to fix that which is broken, they’re so overcome by the realization of that destruction that they just stay in, feeling helpless and hopeless.
I once met a woman at a cafe who had on many previous occasions seemed to have her eye on me. She was a bit overweight, and she was also in her early 30s, and it showed. Well, she seemed not to be the sort of gal I’d be into either physically or, from what I could see, mentally. After about a week or two she finally baited me into a brief conversation with her in which she asked me some personal information, and the discussion became rather strange. She then began to assert (project) a rather dismissive attitude all of a sudden (as a compensation for her perceiving me to not desire her?), and somewhat curtly said “see you later” in an out of turn way. It was sort of Narscissistic in her being manipulative for attention and yet improper in her behavior so as to seem to be dismissive of what she herself sought. I was at the counter and not at her table, so I remained where I stood and began conversing with the barista who I knew, and sort of neutralized her attack, but still, an attack it was, and a very underhanded sort of one. Not that she had anything going for her in doing so. She was not attractive in body or personality, and she was doing her hobby in public: what could be more unladylike? Still, it was her intention that caught me off guard, and it is a dangerous intention, and one which could coexist with very desirable qualities. You have to be a little careful with whom you get close too, and that’s with anyone, man or woman.
Can I add a 14th one? Probably both BPD/NPD:
He convinces himself that you’re up to no good and may have you followed, record your phone calls, search your computer, and question friends, family or your children about your activities. When he can’t find any “evidence” he won’t believe you’re innocent because that would make him wrong. His invasion of your privacy will never end in search of proof to support his “truth.”
I’m in with this addition. Except they don’t see it as an invasion, in fact, they don’t believe you should have privacy so it can’t be an invasion. If you assert that everyone should have some privacy, that there should be bounderies they consider it proof that you’ve done something you shouldn’t and the assault on your privacy increases.
how ’bout I offer another reality, maybe the fact that a woman has grown so cold and distant could be that she has found another. That would be with a normal couple, I understand that a BPD woman could be just using “Withdrawing” as a form of control, however, from the other half’s point of view it is interpreted as having another lover.
What else would explain how a woman with such a vibrant and passionate love life all the sudden growing cold as fish be explained….that is unless you’ve stumbled across this website……
Thanks for your information. I am almost finished with my divorce from my BPD/NPD wife.
Every time I go to your website it makes me breakdown and wonder to myself how I did it all of these years.
Married for 15 years. I consider myself one of the toughest humans on the planet. I always convinced myself, to just get through the night. I did this night after night, year after year. The stories I could tell about her behavior would have everybody shaking their heads.
Everyone on the outside thought we were the greatest family ever. I never complained, except to my therapists, who I went to see because everything was “my fault”. I ended up seeing three of them over the years, and each one said the same thing “get out” I never listened until now.
Thanks for the website, it is unbelievable!! Everything on here is absolutely right on.
Hi Scott,
You’re welcome. I’m sorry to read you went through 15! years of it. You are incredibly strong. You’d have to be to stay in a relationship like that and not lose your mind completely. But just because you’re “strong” and “can take it” doesn’t mean you should. If you’re strong enough to endure the abuses of this kind of woman, you’re also strong enough to get out of the relationship.
My best wishes to you on moving forward.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Dr. T
I see a lot of the above in the relationship with my wife. As I’ve been going through the divorce process I’ve been talking to a relative (Aunt) who has a masters in clinical psychology. Pretty much only about things my soon-to-be-ex would do to me, as well as strategies to deal with her in the short term, and some parenting advice for our two daughters. She has said several times “sounds like S_____ is a narcissist.”
Not only was I censoring my thoughts and feelings, I’ve been censoring my facial expressions, tone of voice, mannerisms, and the like. I’ve essentially had to behave like a “non-defense provoking, emotionless corporate personality type” at home just to keep the peace. That just ain’t easy to do! If I were an obnoxious, rude, foul-mouthed, abusive jackass – sure some censoring would be appropriate. I’ve been in a situation where I can’t show even non-verbally that I don’t approve or like something she has been doing, without catching some repercussion – usually sulking, pouting, withdrawal of affection, and the occaisional tongue lashing. It has been hell – but she is out of the house, and life is getting better, despite going through the divorce process.
My Aunt (the therapist) told me that when S____ was berating or making comments about my tone of voice/facial expressions/or the like, to hold out my hand, arm-straight, look her in the eye briefly, and walk away – essentially saying “stop, I’m not going to take this bs off you.” Well I did that. She started to talk to me about something, I was obviously in a defensive posture, and out come the words “well thats a defensive stance, look, blah blah blah.” Out comes my arm, look her in the eye and walk away. What does she do? She follows me in the bathroom still trying to engage and talk to me. Later that night she was upstairs crying. I didn’t fall for it that time, or any time since. No more rushing upstairs with the apologies, etc. . . . .
Yes, I felt ridiculous to a certain extent, like I was some little effeminate twirp.
But hey, the trick worked and S____ left me alone. She also seemed to grasp real quick that I wasn’t going to put up with her bs anymore. She was out of the house within two weeks and down at her mothers.
How about the trap? or as i like to call it the spiders web. They will act like they care and are all nice with a statement like ‘i was just thinking of you” (but depends on what they were thinking) and then it slowly trickles down to your an asshole for XYZ . I noticed this during the process of the break up I am going through. She would send me a message something as simplitsic as like ” hey” . then it would turn into “I hate my life.” Then it would turn into ‘ I can never trust you again this is all your fault.” WTF??? ok ..bye bye DC
The breakup process seems to accelerate the craziness. I noticed something similar as my own foray into this territory was coming to an end last year around this time.
Don’t let it get to you. You know you’re mere steps away from freedom, from fresh air, from liberation.
That’s not to say things will be instantly better for you. You’ve got a long road ahead, and there will be setbacks. But with time, and distance, you’ll see just how crazy it all was, and how lucky you were to get out, and how proud of yourself you should be for finally saying “ENOUGH” and leaving.
Good luck…
-Kev.
Reminds me of the time,after a two month break, my ex npd bpd texted me R U Over me. I was doing ok but missed her a bit. I thought hey, she needs/wants me…so i texted-no not really. She fired back…I didn’t think so. What a whacko! Just trying to yank my chain. And yes, I was off on another cycle of abuse which culminated in another one of her rage episodes, and me sitting on the curb with that WTF look on my face. Holy CRAP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSh1JNZkb-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r34zqR1bpmg
I have a habit of doubting myself and playing devil’s advocate, that’s probably why I get taken advantage of. But, here’s some videos that seem amusing, in a juxtapoz kinda way, if you view both of them…..not necessarily at the same time.
First video talks about how guys feel manipulated, and second video talks about how to manipulate guys to see how they feel. I’m just wondering if this is real life convoluted thinking?
That is a crack up, they use the same video!!!
thanks for this. you totally made my morning.
I like the role reversal between the two videos. It’s like going through the looking glass. Although, it’s interesting to see how the Psycho-gf views her behaviors as normal in the second video.
Married for going on 18 years. My wife has many of the symptoms listed. I have just realized through the reactions of many of my friends that I’m a great big push-over. Recently a friend observed a situation where my wife reacted to an unfavorable parent teacher conference with “I want a different husband” in front of my daughter, friend and his wife. I told her there are lots of them out there, just pick a rich one. My friend in reaction to what my wife said, said to me, “what a horrible thing to say” and I thought, yes your right, and I am so accustomed to it that I let it go. This is just one of thousands examples of her behavior towards me. The outside world will tell you what a great woman she is, and I agree, she is a great woman on many levels. However, the way she treats me is a different story. I am at the end of my rope. I have dealt with this for many years with exercise and alcohol. I am now having anxiety attacks every time she exercises her narcissism. She keeps me on constant edge with thoughts that if I just lost a little weight and did a little more around the house she would be attracted to me. I am good looking and one of the more fit guys in the gym. I do dishes, laundry, spend quality time with our daughter, volunteer at school, fix the car, house etc, bring home the bacon, cook her fancy candle light dinners, run marathons, do what ever she asks when she asks (except stop drinking, but i did do that 2X and the only difference was that she couldn’t blame the problems on me drinking.) Now, I am very troubled with the fact that for me to get away from her, I have to loose everything that I have built and start all over. So I’m wondering if there is any hope. Should I just stay with her and bury my head in a bottle until I have a heart attack at 45 (I’m 37). Or bite the bullet, get a divorce and start over. I’m very depressed and hopeless right now, and don’t want to fix our marriage. I have dreadful feelings towards her. None I want to repeat here due to legal ramifications. I wouldn’t ever do them, but I can’t deny the thoughts cross my mind. I would be so happy if she came home and told me she met someone and she was moving out. My daughter is having trouble at school because of what mom has demonstrated/taught her. Please help me find clarity in this situation. And if I left out too much symptons/details. I will gladly fill you in.
Hi JR,
If the options are “bury your head in a bottle until you have a heart attack” or get a divorce, start over and have a chance at happiness, I’d choose the latter if I were you.
Pay attention to how you describe your choices. I don’t think there’s much of a choice to make. Resigning yourself to this woman and drinking yourself to death is an example of learned helplessness. You’re not helpless. You have options, they may not be easy and you’ll probably make some waves, but you have options. If things are as miserable with your wife as you describe, what’s stopping you from finding the best attorney you can find and getting out?
Yes, you will take a financial hit (these women are bloodsuckers) and she will no doubt make it difficult for your daughter to see you. On the other hand, do you want your daughter to see you as you are now? Suffering, abused, terribly unhappy and wishing for an early death? If you go the divorce route, make sure you prepare as if you were about to invade the beaches of Normandy. Get copies of all your financial records, start recording the abusive things your wife says and does, write down as many past episodes as you can think of and then prepare some more.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Jr,
Wow.. It sounds like we are twin brothers.. I am 36 years old and I also did everything you stated that you do for wife (house work, cook dinner, etc etc). I also bought a house and purchased nice things for our home.. We got two dogs (that we treat like our children),I thought I had the perfect life.. I was denial with the reality though.. Reality was that my soon to be x-wife has several traits of bpd. She would curse me, control me and become extremely jealous.. If one of my male friends texted me, I would have to read the message to her and my response. If someone called me she would ask me who it was, what the conversation about etc. etc. While I was working she would call and see where are you, who are you with and how long you been there.. I can go on further but I’m sure you have the idea. She has severe trust issues with me.. By the way I have never done anything to make her feel that way about me. I told myself and told her at times, “If it wasn’t for the house or dogs, I would leave and divorce you”. Her response was, “leave then, now”. My life became so miserable that at one point I had to look at myself in the mirror and ask myself, “This is your life NOW and if you stay with her this will be you life forever. Can you live like this the rest of your life? Do you have any self respect left in you as a man to leave and start over?” At that moment I decided that this was it I need to leave.. I found me a new place to live, packed up my little belongings and left. It has been 3 1/2 months since I have done this. I’m not going to lie and say that it’s not hard, ITS VERY HARD, but I know that the pain I feel now will past, but if I would’ve stayed it would’ve have been the REST of my life. I wish you the best of luck buddy and the only I would say you should do is what Dr. Tara said and to read this website CONSTANTLY. Tha is what I have been doing and it really has made me realize that I did not have a choice.. Good luck
Amazing….it’s like a broken record that just keeps playing the same thing over and over again, yet it is not….It is men from all over the Free world experiencing the same issues and feeling exactly the same way yet never meeting each other.
A). It is never enough is it?? You do all these things to better yourself for her yet the bar is always just a bit higher once you get to a level huh?
B). You just get to that point and there is no return.
C). That is my plan now…..just wait for her to find “new shiny object” and move on. No, I don’t want to deal with the wrath if I leave….
D). Funny ain’t it?? Stay at home mom…you’d think my kids would be doing great…no….I have to tutor them to get them above a “C” level in grades while my Stay at home wife does….????
So the other night I let her have it. I told her she was a great woman to the rest of the world but not to me. I told her that I don’t want to be married to, love on, spend time with etc etc the mean version of my wife, but I would happily do that for the version the rest of the world gets.. Yes she is classic, if someone of perceived power is in the room, she is the nicest, happiest person in the world. When she is around me , I get “you want me to respect you but your not a man, if you would just be a man, maybe you would get some respect” I say, what is your definition of a man. She spews out this list of things that amount to money, money and more money, used for her benefit. I work at Intel R&D headquarters on a compressed work week, so I put in many hours when I work, but I get lots of days off. Apparently, if I was a man I would get a second job or go to school on my days off. She didn’t like it when I asked her if she would like it if I told her that I might be able to love her is she would suck it up and get a second job or go to night school.
So now I’ve laid it out there in the wide open and tell her change, or I’m gone. She clams up for a couple days and all of the sudden she tells me she is done trying. She will be sleeping in our guest room and is officially shutting me out. She wants time to concentrate on herself and since she can’t have everything her way, that I am solely in charge of everything.
Ok now, these things I have shared with you are just examples from one week. I laughed the other day when a song came on the radio. I remember buying the first album Staid released, 10 years ago. I came home, parked in the driveway and polished off a six pack and listened to the CD, all the while thinking about how much I hate my wife. Five years before that, I remember walking down Cocoa beach seeking advice from my dad on how to deal with the wife.
So I did a bunch of reading on Narcissism and the more I read the more confused I get. I am thinking, if she is oblivious to her behavior, could it be that it is really me that is oblivious to my behavior and she is the real victim and I’m the real problem. She has many symptoms but isn’t a perfect match. Does her behavior and our problems belong on this forum? Talk to me guys. so far, this has been very therapeutic, and has me already planning an exit strategy. However, the expensive lawyer part is a very very very hard cliff to jump off of.
Yes, The are very crafty about convincing you that it is all your fault. That is the “talent” that these women possess. The only thing you have yet to mention is the next step in the series……which is how they try to convince you to seek counseling for “Your” anger issues. Or to get into Couples counseling so that her and some therapist can beat up on you…..Look it up…..it’s on page 78 paragraph 2 of the NPD playbook (ok that is sarcasm).
This confusion is because you do something that proves it is not you YOU (unlike her) are willing to listen to another persons criticism and give it some thought and consideration……The BPD will NEVER consider that they may have a problem. If you point it out to them they will deny any and all Culpability and never admit that they have a single issue…….
……this is the “X” factor that you are overlooking.
And allow me to add one more question…..Has she spent a single minute trying to research what could be wrong in your relationship like you have?? Has she read anything about BPD?? Most likely no……and you know why?? Because “it is all your fault” No need to go any further in her mind. One that is able to consider all things possible (normal people) look for info to fix the situation. She has no interest in anything other than control of you.
Oh yes, she has mentioned many times that our problems are because of my depression and drinking and that I need to see a doc. So I say, what is it about my drinking that is causing so many problems(knowing that when I quit nothing changed). Because I don’t drink around her or my daughter. As soon as I ask this, you can see the voltage draw as she fires up the database search engine. There was that one time, and then there was that other time. It is not, “every night your passed out on the couch” It is five things that happened in the last 5 years. Yes, I admit, drinking fixes nothing and that is my weakness.
This morning, I reluctantly read to her the 13 signs of narcissism and as I was reading she was yelling back, I know, I know, I know I have all the signs. But she followed it up with “I told a friend that you think I’m a narcissist and she laughed” And then the conversation spiraled into a mess. And I told her, that the article would say your friends would laugh, and it would cause more problems to read the signs to a narcissist, which they did. But I am no doctor and I have misdiagnosed many things in the past, that the vet or the family doctor corrected right away. So, does this matter belong in the hands of a therapist, and I’m pretty sure the answer is yes. Or just save your money and execute a clean exit strategy. Because I haven’t read an article yet that suggests sticking it out with a narcissist. And if I haven’t mentioned it, it turns my stomach that there is a sweet little girl caught up in this ridiculous tragedy. Which makes me all the more bitter to her mother.
TIMEOUT:
JR, if you’re seriously contemplating divorce YOU NEED TO GET YOUR GAME ON.
When you make the gravest of sins and actually leave one of these women, they turn into feral animals who will use anything and everything they can against you, which means you have to be beyond reproach.
If you can easily stop drinking, do it. Find a healthier coping mechanism. Your wife will surely use this against you if she decides to battle you on custody. It doesn’t matter if you don’t drink around her or your daughter. You mustn’t give this woman any more ammunition against you then she already has.
Furthermore, you need to be as clear-headed as possible throughout the divorce process. Make no mistake; if you’re wife truly has NPD, you’re in for a battle. They don’t compromise. They’re not amicable. They seek to punish and destroy. They don’t care about collateral damage and they’ll bring the house down on themselves in order to hurt you.
As for getting her diagnosed by a mental health professional—sure, that’d be great, but it’s unlikely to happen. Most therapists are unwilling to officially diagnose personality disorders while many more are easily duped by these skilled natural actors and actresses.
Ultimately, you’re the one who’s lived with her and been exposed to her hurtful behaviors, so who knows what she’s like better than you?
As for your daughter, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, quit succumbing to feelings of learned helpless and impotent rage and get it together for her. She is most certainly being damaged by your wife’s behavior. She deserves at least one strong and healthy parent and that’s YOU.
There’s another man on this site who tried to make it work for years. This last summer his NPD/BPD wife made a parasuicidal gesture and their 18-year old daughter found her and the suicide note (blaming the husband/father, of course). The young woman was profoundly scared and scarred by what happened and father and daughter finally had a talk about “mum” in which the daughter admitted to knowing something was very wrong with her mother. And what happened to the selfish woman who exposed her family to this manipulative empty gesture? Her family sent her off to Australia all expenses paid for a month while her husband, daughter and son were left to deal with the aftermath. Do you want something like this to happen to your daughter?
There’s a time for commiseration and then there’s a time to take action and do something. I don’t mean to cause offense. Consider this my version of “tough love.”
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
I would also like to make it perfectly clear, I am not looking to the internet to give me the green light to divorce my wife. I’m simply looking for experiences and insight to help me make a very big, well thought out, drastic change in my life.
If there is anyone giving you the green light to divorce your wife, it’s your wife. I’ve been married to a woman who was worse than narcissistic, and when I realized the situation was going to end badly no matter what I did, I divorced her. This is a decision not to be made lightly, but I would start getting my ducks in a row now. For what it’s worth, you’re not alone in your situation and good luck to you.
Taras
8) Say What?
“Her accusations run the gamut from infidelity to cruelty to being un-supportive (even when you’re the one paying all the bills) to repressing her and holding her back. It’s usually bull, which leaves you feeling defensive and misunderstood.”
While all the red flags listed are on point and valid. Number 8 gave me confirmation as to what I did in fact experience with my ex NPD/BPD for 17 years. I only wish I could describe what this will do to a person albeit male or female over a long period of time. What I can say is how it destroyed me from the inside out. Being successful in most of my personal endeavors but time after time losing in this area (relationship) with my ex. So please allow me to say if you are indeed involve with anyone that does number 8 to you please get out asap. If you both have children together then it (in my opinion) is even more important to get out so that you can heal and help your children understand this persona and allow them time to grow and come to their own decision in how they will relate to Mom. Remember if she is doing this to you she will also do it to your child.
I have fallen very deeply in love with a woman that is (acording to your markers) is definately a bpd and ? . I am wondering, my question is…….is there ever a circumstance where you would say it was likely for the womans recovery ? any certain set of criteria tha woould be beneficial and almost ensure recovery to the point of being a viable spouse, life mate ? some degree of sanity and serenity ? I really don’t want to quit on her. I DO love her. What would be my best shot ? Thank you very much for your time and contribution, I for one, am very glad to have this option. Thank You, Brian
My understanding is that folks with personality disorders don’t really RECOVER, so much as learn to behave a little better. And it takes years. This is assuming she’s willing to do a LOT of hard work and admit she has a problem. That’s pretty unlikely. She’d rather just pick YOU apart and feel better.
Love is a powerful emotion, but do you REALLY want to spend the rest of your life being treated like dirt?
Brian.. I am/was very in love with my wife.. We had it all the “So Call American Dream”.. But I couldn’t take it any longer she was 12 of the 13 signs here.. I tried everything and I did everything, but nothing worked.. After SIX LONG MISERABLE YEARS I only had ONE solution that worked…. RUNNNNNNNN as fast as you can.. You deserve better and you will find it… RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
Hi Jeff..runnnnnn is the operative word. Being with someone who has BDP is extremely difficult and hazardous to your health.
I went back to see my psychiatrist who treated me for depression nearly 9 years ago from my divorce to discuss my ex-fiance and the disorerd I believe she is suffering from:BPD She has 12 of the 13 signs.
My ex was a manipulator, controlling and abusive person .I have suffered a great deal. I pushed her to seek therapy which she adamantly refused because there was nothing wrong with her. After 18 months of dating, she has finally sought treatment and is in therapy.
My ex has broken up with me about 19 times only to return and come back to me after a short period of time. When she broke up with me for three weeks this past August 2009, i sold the engagement ring.
She just broke up with me two weeks ago and I have finally had enough of the abuse. I sent her one last email this past Wednesday. I requested that she no longer contact me as we both must move forward. I have decided to implement a strict no contact policy until i detoxify myself from this woman who i loved very much.
Brian:
As Mr. E mentioned, BPDs do not “recover”; rather, such techniques as DBT, CBT, transference, and mentalization are aimed at helping the BPD to “reign in” their emotional outbursts; in other words, to put their behavior in a state of remission. BUT, just as with physical illnesses like cancer, they can (and do) sometimes re-emerge.
Worse yet, consider this information:
Very large and careful research studies have examined the course of borderline personality disorder. These studies have found that 88% of people with BPD achieve remission (e.g., no longer meet criteria for a BPD diagnosis) over ten years. In addition, about one-third of people with BPD achieve remission within two years! This means that only a very small subset of people with BPD (about 12%) continue to have the disorder for more than 10 years.
(Zanarini MC, Frankenburg FR, Hennen J, Reich DB, Silk KR. “Prediction of the 10-Year Course of Borderline Personality Disorder.” American Journal of Psychiatry. 163:827-832, 2006.)
Now, consider the statistics provided, and look at them from the opposite viewpoint…FIRST, the studies ASSUME that the BPD individual actually ADMITS to having a problem (next to impossible!), and then enters intensive therapy. So, in TWO years, fully 66% are still not “controlled”. And, 12% are not in remission after a full DECADE of therapy…
Here’s my question for you, and only you can answer it: Are you willing to give up 2 years of your life for this woman, IF she happens to be in that “one-third” category? Worse yet, what if she’s one of the 12% folks? Are you willing to stick it out and lose a DECADE of your life for naught? AND, how about the fact that during this entire time, YOU will probably need therapy for yourself to cope?
I see it this way: If you were to ask any of us guys here, we would most likely tell you that we also were deeply in love with our wives early on…but over time, the emotional, mental, and sometimes physical beat-downs destroy your entire being…and you will find that this destruction also affects your relationships with EVERYONE around you–your family, your friends (what few you may have left!), your co-workers, even casual acquaintances and complete strangers. People will begin to describe you as mean, sullen, withdrawn, sad, unhappy, “not yourself”…these are all the effects of living with a BPD/NPD for years.
What do you mean you “don’t want to quit on her?” Why is this woman’s well-being and happiness your job? Her happiness and well-being are her responsibility, not yours. Don’t let her put this on you. This is how many men get sucked in.
What exactly are you getting out of this relationship? Perhaps she’s sweet on occasion, but so what? If she truly has all the markers as you say, do the occasional normal moments make up for the abuse and the hurt?
You got along without this woman before you knew her and will do so again after parting ways. No one can make this decision, but you. My advice is to read through this site and familiarize yourself with the stories of men who doubled down and stayed in their relationship. If you still want to hang in there after reading everything on this site, I strongly encourage you to;
1. Retain control over all of your finances.
2. Do not marry this woman or start a family with her, no matter how much she tortures you on this. When you marry a woman like this you basically give her and the courts the ability to destroy you and it’s all legal.
3. Get yourself one helluva support system and do not let this woman isolate you from your friends and family.
4. Do not give her money, pay off her credit card debt, pay for new projectss or other fanciful ideas, etc.
5. Maintain separate residences.
You haven’t provided much information, but if you really suspect your gf has these issues, please, please do not take it lightly, do your research, educate yourself about the disorders and talk to men and women who have already gone through this kind of relationship before you make any binding commitment to your girlfriend.
Believe it or not there are healthier fish in the sea.
Best,
Dr Tara
Brain, I’m going to be direct with you…..out of compassion
It’s not going to be different because it’s you…..you aren’t smarter than the rest of the men on this blog. You are just at the cusp whereas we are at the end……listen to what is being said to you ….we were all strong and extroverted “way back when”. That is what attracts these types to us.
Then when all the doors are closed and it is just you and her…..She says “Don’t you think things would be better if you just [insert criticism of choice here]…..it starts as just a little suggestion.
The words of criticism ring in my ears from 1992 era….they never go away and for a while I thought there was some validity to them.
take heed.
Brian,
also add:
“It’s rather selfish of you to always want to [insert interest of yours here]…”
“Why must you always ______?”
“Why are you always talking to [friend/co-worker/relative]? You’re sleeping with them, aren’t you?”
“If you loved me, you’d ________”
and so on, and so on.
As jham123 says, we were all strong and extroverted “way back when.” Now a year out, I’m still trying to exorcise the demon that I internalized, and put my life back together. I can’t really say that continuous self-doubt mixed with ptsd, panic/anxiety attacks, and suicidal thoughts (based on practically no sense of self-worth, not based on “pining” for her) are worth the love I thought I was receiving from her, nor the sex that upon reflection simply wasn’t worth it.
I think one of the reasons we feel we are “quitting on her” if we walk away is that we want to be compassionate, and caring. The problem is, by staying, it sucks all of your compassion dry, leaving none for you. We don’t want to be viewed as selfish, or as a jerk, or as a deadbeat, or as one of hundred other terms we are consistently labeled with in this society. We are taught that we’re supposed to PROVIDE.
It’s b.s.
I’m not sacrificing myself on that altar ever again.
Hi Kev,
Your last paragraph says it all. This kind of woman immediately sucks people in with a misplaced sense of obligation. You “owe” them.
The reality is that you owe it to yourself not to allow yourself to be taken advantage of and abused. Women want you to believe that you’re an asshole if you don’t let them torture you and don’t make them the center of their universe.
Normal people do not behave like this. This is not love. It’s control and abuse. Too many people are conditioned to believe the things Kev describes without ever once considering their validity.
Think about this relationship with your intellect; not your feelings. These women confuse, control and destroy with distorted emotions. Don’t listen to your heart in this instance; listen to your head.
I would also like to say that I believe its common for us men (on this website) to feel bad when you walk away from this type of woman. I believe this comes from us being caregivers, wanting us to take attempt to protect them etc etc. Pretty much, the same things that attracted us to them in the first place. I even feel bad for leaving her, but I have realized that her problems and demons are not mine to deal with. I am finally learning to find myself again and love myself again… Its like these individuals totally, totally destroy who you are and everything you have ever believed in.. You second guess everything you have ever said and done.. Thats their goals.. Lucky us..
Just don’t put a ring on her finger. And if you ever find yourself wondering why you are fighting so much, don’t be a sucker and think things will get better. They won’t and then you will be like me, looking back over 18 years of misery.
I made the mistake of putting a ring on her finger. We were engaged and lived together for a year and a half, and during that time the facade of the loving woman vanished and her true self emerged. I thought that it was due to the stresses of wedding planning, moving, and starting my business, but the problems continued to get worse after the wedding. I was accused of being cruel, hateful, “not a man”, cheap, unsatisfactory in bed, etc. All of this despite the fact that I supported her financially, tried my best to give her everything she wanted, cared for her when she was sick (she was ALWAYS sick. It literally never ended). I admit, there were problems with physical intimacy, but it didn’t help matters at at all that I was completely blamed for them and punished with withholding of affection as a result.
Before we married, she convinced me that I needed help for my “uncontrollable rage” and we went to counseling. I never once yelled at her or went into a rage as she claimed, but I went along because I realized something was wrong with the relationship. As long as the counselor was focusing on me, all was fine, but as soon as she became the focus, she would immediately target me once again. During one session, the counselor told my ex that she seemed to have issues dealing with anxiety and possibly depression, and that she needed to deal with those issues. She refused to go back, because she said the counselor offended her. Five months into the marriage I was told that we needed to go to couples’ counseling again because my “rages” had gotten worse (complete BS), or she was going to leave. So, we go, and once again, when the focus was on her, she couldn’t deal with it. We agreed to individual sessions with the counselor, although she didn’t go to many. After we split, this same counselor was the one that first mentioned the possibility of my ex being NPD/BPD, which brought me to this site.
It’s been almost 6 months since we’ve split, and the divorce is final, but I’m still dealing with the aftermath of crushed self esteem and self doubt. Little by little it’s getting better, but I still can’t believe that I am in this situation. I’ve gotten occasional updates on her status from a few of my family members (she was addicted to the bridal website thenest.com which she continues to post updates on her amazing life without me), and it’s frustrating and sickening to hear that she is able to act like I never existed and act as if she is so happy and complete with someone else. I’ve asked my family not to update me any more, because it does me no good and only prolongs the healing process. Bottom line (after a long post. It was a rough weekend), if these 13 signs are familiar, run, run, run, run, RUN!. And listen to family and friends. If more than one of them tells you something is wrong with your girlfriend/wife, it’s probably pretty accurate.