Home > Abusive relationships, Borderline Personality Disorder, bullying, divorce, Marriage, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Psychology, relationships > Divorce and Break-Ups: There Is No Closure with a Narcissistic or Borderline Woman

Divorce and Break-Ups: There Is No Closure with a Narcissistic or Borderline Woman

please close the doorClosure is a healthy part of ending a relationship. You each get to say your peace. You both apologize for any unintentional and/or intentional hurts. You say goodbye and wish each other well. This is how closure works between two reality-based, reasonably sane adults who basically had a good relationship, but didn’t work because you ultimately had different goals, values, interests, a lack of compatibility or you grew apart instead of together.

A less satisfying form of closure is when you had a relationship with someone who wasn’t considerate, wasn’t invested in the relationship or just wasn’t ready for commitment. If this person is a reality-based, reasonably sane adult then you break up and state how they hurt you. They apologize and give you an ego massage by offering, “It’s not you; it’s me. You deserve someone who really loves you.” You accept his or her apology and you both go away feeling a little better.

Trying to get closure with a narcissistic and/or borderline woman usually results in reopening your old wounds, not healing them

Attempting to obtain closure with an abusive, narcissistic and/or borderline woman (i.e., Crazy) is almost always a maddening exercise in futility. You’re not going to get closure with this kind of woman for several reasons. First, she doesn’t meet the three most important prerequisites for giving and receiving closure:

  1. A reasonable degree of sanity
  2. A foothold in reality
  3. Empathy

Being able to give an ex closure means you’re able to accept your share of responsibility for the demise of the relationship and when has your BPD and/or NPD ex ever taken responsibility for her behavior, especially when she was clearly in the wrong?

Don’t you remember how she would rewrite ancient and recent history when you were together by portraying herself as the long suffering heroine and you as the terrible ogre, after every nasty blow-up, attack or cold shoulder episode that she initiated? Do you really think she’s going to admit to any of the relationship atrocities she committed during the relationship now that it’s over? (*Unless, of course, she’s attempting a Hoover.)

I hate to break it to you, but if you’re waiting for this to happen or, heaven forbid, an apology from this woman; IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. If you try to get closure from your NPD and/or BPD ex by detailing the many ways she hurt and tortured you, she’s unlikely to acknowledge what she did.

Instead, she’ll puff herself up, look at you like you’re the crazy one, and mystifyingly tell you, “I was a wonderful and loving wife or girlfriend. How dare you say these things to me? You must be crazy or someone’s brainwashed you. Don’t you remember how good I was to you and the many things I did for you?”

Somebody has a memory problem, but it’s not you. If you seek closure from this woman, she’ll regale you with her revisionist relationship history as you have yet another NPD/BPD induced WTF-moment. You’ll be understandably rattled after walking into another one of her traps and  she’ll tell you how worried she is about you because you seem so unhappy now (the “without her” is implied).

Evidence that the hard wiring in these women’s heads is truly out of whack:

1. They don’t get that when you look hurt, unhappy and in pain it’s because of something they’ve done. They think it’s because of something you’ve done because if she hurt you, you deserved it and she was right to hurt you. She’s confused hurting you with “showing you affection” and trying to take most of your assets as “generosity.” You cannot reason with this.

Once most men finally get out of an abusive relationship, they feel an intense amount of relief. They have regret and sadness that they fell in love with a woman who doesn’t really exist and put up with the abuse for so long, but that’s normal. Nearly every man I know who’s broken free from one of these women is infinitely happier — even with less money (if it’s divorce—a reader describes it as “the price of freedom, sanity and happiness”) and/or less time with their kid(s). Once the abuse stops, it’s a tremendous relief.

2. What they call love is really abuse and control, but they doggedly insist, it’s love. Enough said.

3. Some of them truly believe they were the best wife or girlfriend. You could show this kind of woman a video tape of one of her unprovoked rage attacks and she’d still deny she did it or find a way to blame you for it. Her defense mechanisms are impenetrable.

This is why it’s crazy for you to seek closure from this woman. She may have brief moments in which she can recognize the truth of who she is and what she’s done. However, the reality of it terrifies her and shakes her to the core. Instead of apologizing to you, she’ll quickly revert back to her idealized false self or image that no one (who knows her well) believes.

Narcissistic women in particular believe that their facade is so slick that no one can see through it and many people don’t until they get too close, which is why these women don’t let anyone get too close. In other words, she believes her own bullshit. She has to believe it because if she doesn’t she fears she will fall apart. It’s a matter of ego preservation vs. ego annihilation except that she’s actually preserving her false self.

Then she will either attack you or gaslight you by rewriting history yet again. Do you really want to get caught in one of these crazy-making, never ending loops with your ex? Didn’t you learn your lesson while you were with her?

Here’s how you get closure from an emotionally abusive narcissistic and/or borderline woman: Get as far away from her as you can and then get on with your life. The best form of closure for you is living well and that means a life free of abuse, filled with love and happiness. This woman will never have the kind of relationships other people are capable of — she will be left with herself and that’s a fate I wouldn’t wish upon anyone.

Counseling, Consulting and Coaching with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD

Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for professional inquiries or send an email to shrink4men@gmail.com.

Want to Say Goodbye to Crazy? Buy it HERE.


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Please close the door by aeioux on flickr.

  1. Dan
    January 21, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    I had this no closure thing happen last summer.Worst thing to ever happen to me.I could not understand how a woman that pursued me so hard,could turn so cold in a matter of months.The harder I tried to understand it,the crazier I felt.After 8 months of a relationship I tried the friend zone for 2 months.2 months of her cold passive aggressive manipulation finally drove me to unfriend her on Facebook.The next day I got a text asking if I unfriended her.I was surprised she even noticed.I never have experienced such raw pain in my life.I guess it’s good she has a new guy to focus on now.She sent me an odd Facebook message in November,which I didn’t respond to.Something about how I should be careful what I say about people.Someone must have told her something I said about her.Who knows?Getting that Facebook message out of the blue after not seeing or being in contact with her just creeped me out.

    • Mellaril
      January 21, 2014 at 2:05 pm

      If knowing you’re being watched a few months after the breakup creeps you out, imagine what getting a FB friend request from one of these types feels like after 25 years.

      Some of them have incredibly long memories.

      • Dan
        January 21, 2014 at 2:55 pm

        25 years wow!In my case I live about 3 miles from her,but I avoid places she goes.I thought if I was out of sight I would be out of mind.I really have to say no contact has helped me along.It took all my strength to not respond to that Facebook message.

        • Mellaril
          January 21, 2014 at 7:46 pm

          I didn’t accept but I responded. My wife considered my exgf a threat 25 years ago and wasn’t thrilled when I told her about it.

          25 years ago, my exgf told me she wanted to meet my wife. I didn’t let it happen, then. So, when I deleted the friend request, I posted some pictures of my wife and me, including some wedding photos.

          If my exgf ever looked, she knows I’m still married to the woman that replaced her.

          • Dan
            January 21, 2014 at 7:49 pm


  2. dairushad
    November 23, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    I have been dating my Ex (probably) BPD girlfriend for about a year.

    When we met she didn’t have any sexual partner yet in her life and she was so cute and insecure. 2 weeks after we started to hook up she lost her virginity to me. I thought it was too fast, but she kept telling me how I was special and how she thought I am the right one.
    We continued to sleep with each other for about 2 month and then I went on an exchange which I planed before we met. We started to date each other and try a long distance for the 4 month where I have been abroad. She planned to come and visit me after 3 month.

    During the 3 month on long distance there were already some weird moments. Once she called me and was crying and told me how bad her life was and how she doesn’t have anyone in her life who is there for her (yeah she told that her own boyfriend).
    After 2 month she wanted to break up because she was sure I was into other girls, even though we were calling every day and I told everyone there I have a girlfriend.
    We made up and the next month she came to place where I have been on exchange.

    It was like she was an entirely different person. Even though she told me days before she came how she loves me more and more every day she was totally cold when she came. Nothing of all the romantic things I planed for her seemed to interest her. Instead of being cute she started to become bold. I caught her flirting with someone I introduced her to there. Two days later I saw kissing pictures with her and her ex boyfriend on her phone. And as a result I really freaked out and wanted to kick her out. Later in the relationship we would always blame me for that night (never mentioning the reason why it even happened) She pretended that she didn’t mean to flirt but just wanted to be nice to that guy. We made up and decided to continue the relationship when I am back.

    After I came back from my exchange the relationship went horrible. For every small thing we would break up with me. We went to a trip to another city and on the middle of the street she would insult me. When I got angry then she would blame me for being aggressive. She always said she feels stressed and pressured around me. After a few month we barely had sex (even though our sex was mind blowing in the beginning and SHE couldn’t get enough). She blamed the pills so I told her to not take it anymore. But it didn’t get better. We had less and less sex and the reason for her break ups or fight got more and more ridiculous. Once we couldn’t agree on what to eat and she would leave the apartment. She started to blame me that I only care about sex.
    There was another time where we were supposed to eat dinner together and she came 2h to late and I already ate. I was sick and in the same morning I woke up early to make a lunch bag for her while she is in the library. She spilled the food over my persian carpet (because I already ate!!) and later on blamed me for making her behave this way because she learned that aggressive behavior from me (biggest bullshit). She said that she was originally a cute and decent person but that MY aggressive behaviors made her like that.

    After 8 month of on/off relationship I got to the point where I was just annoyed. I felt like walking on egg shells and I was afraid to express any concerns about the relationship because I was afraid it would end in a break up again.

    I graduated and she didn’t (we were in the same program) and I could so see how she couldn’t stand that. I helped her through our entire study but she was just too lazy. She was supposed to retake her bachelor thesis in summer. She kept asking me if I want to help her doing this. But I was already so annoyed by the relationship and by being there for her and only getting break ups back for it that I refused to do it. Also because she failed it because of her own laziness. She couldn’t stand it and then we broke up for a stupid reason, though I think the real reason is that I didn’t react to her tears anymore and refused to help her.

    After the break up she behaved crazy. I called her a few times to get closure. She said the relationship was the worst year of her life and that she feels so much happier now. She said “I blocked the shit out of you on every site and messenger possible, never talk to me again!”. And some point she even claimed that I want to kill her and she is scared.
    I finally found out that she started dating someone else after only 2 month. When I called her to say WTF she would just say that she is having a new life now and that I am not part of it. She still couldn’t say anything good about our relationship, she said she is just glad it’s over and that she never wants to see me again.

    I was very sad at first about how she feels about our relationship and that we didn’t have any closure. But now I realize she isn’t that cute girl I thought she is during our honeymoon period. I noticed that I sort of split as well. When I miss her I split the cute side of her from her abusive side. But she is what she is at a whole. The abusive girl is just part of her as the cute girl she pretended to be at first and later on in the relationship is.
    And obviously that cute and insecure girl was just a mask of her. Someone who is really cute in nature doesn’t behave like that.

    I more and more realize that she is an outrageous, blame shifting, unthankful, crazy-making, twisted person.
    I wrote down all the crazy quotes and actions of her that I remember. Whenever I fall in nostalgia I read through that list and feel nauseous that I called someone like that my girlfriend.

    She didn’t love me. It was really THAT bad. The few good times don’t make up for all the crazy times. NO ONE WHO REALLY LOVED SOMEONE TREATS THAT PERSON LIKE THAT AFTER A BREAK UP. Even after all her abusive bullshit and after she is dating someone else I would never treat her that cold because UNLIKE HER I AM NORMAL.

    To expect closure from these girls is just wishful thinking. Make a list and stick it on your wall to remind yourself of who she really was! It will take a time but you will start to notice that you are actually lucky that she is out of your life.

    PS: My flatmate has a very normal girlfriend. Whenever I see him and his girlfriend and how they handle conflicts and spend their time with each other I realize how a NORMAL relationship is supposed to be. Compare your relationship to the one of a normal couple and you will notice that something as horrible wrong and that IT WASN’T YOU!

  3. November 10, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Thanks for this site Dr Palmatier,
    You have indeed helped many men deal with these kind of women as my own experience meeting a classy, beautiful widow who’s main concern was diamonds and travel plus her cute dogs. She had a inner circle of close GF’s all in an affluent area. This was a 1 year venture where I was sending presents , talking hours every night on the phone and then out of the blue I was put on hold as she had to meet this one other guy to see her real feelings – that was a 3 month gap when all the time I am deepely in love with her. The hurt was from that and little things like here I am her Boyfriend, Lover and when I visted 3-4 days at her place I was always considered a “Guest” with a specific time line like your here until Monday morning at 8 Am — not 8:15 what a joke how us men – MEN bend and bow to these women . I tried to break up 3 times yet she always sent the hook into me a few days later with an casual email. One year to date she called and broke up yet, she said I may show up at your door 2 years from now after I get over this phase. LOL Yes they do nick pick be it your language, dress, manners one cannot be yourself with these women and your only there to please and worship them who as you indicate can really love nobody but, themself – thanks again and please keep up the work – Recovering in the Midwest

  4. November 1, 2013 at 9:09 pm


    I was with a BPD women a little over 2 years and finally broke it off. Well actually she would break up we me constantly, then call me back to made love or change this or that, only to jump back into her raging and made up thoughts. Not going into great detail, yes, she would go nuts and violent even during the most romantic dinners holding my hand and telling me how much she adores me, then swear, an punch, while I was driving the car down the expressway, and then jumping out of the car when we came to a stop light. This has happen several times, and made up stories about me not wanting to help her or chip in around the house etc, or me flirting with other women etc. Finally I left but it was tough.

    Question, I open a door and she text and I called. Basically she profusely apologized and said she been journaling. (We haven’t been together for 5 months) and said it was all her fault. I did nothing wrong, she was a total and complete bitch and was cruel. She repeated these lines several times on the phone. I was going to meet her but I was too afraid and told her so. She kept on trying to convince me to meet up and again assure me that things that happen where because of her insecurities and she treated me awful, and she see that now and is not afraid. I do remember one other big breakup and she blame it on the wrong medication, only to slip back shortly to the same stuff, but this was different. She for the 1st time, was taking full responsibility. I was afraid but impressed. I now am thinking about this a bit . It’s been 3 weeks since it happen.

    She is 61 years old and is used to going to Coda meetings etc. COuld she have turned some corner or is this also a form of Hoovering. Not many BPD admit fault and blame. Love to hear anyone opinion on it. Why I would trust her again is beyond me but yes I am very attracted to her, but also in a very good relationship and don’t want to blow it on someone who really wants to love but is incapable to do so. . I think she know I am a relationship, which is why she contacted me. Thoughts?

    • Mellaril
      November 2, 2013 at 7:48 pm

      Has she changed? Probably not.

      How much are you willing to risk to find out?

      • November 2, 2013 at 7:55 pm

        From a lay men. If you like the drama, have fun. Otherwise there are many other fish in the sea.

  5. jack17
    October 7, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Thanks Justin , that’s about how I see it as well, but I was shaking since I was so attracted to her, and she profusely admitted to all being her fault and her being bitchy and cruel , and it had nothing to do with me. But this was over a year at least , and that kind of behavior is something that’s beyond bitchy and cruel, or she was afraid. The other thing, is I am now dating this other women and she is nice, and very pretty, and seems to have no issues, very kind and thoughtful, wonderful, and I am really falling for her and her for me. I have a real chance of happiness, and I don’t want to blow it. I care deeply for her, and the other, I don’t feel the same. It’s been 3 months and I see no red flags, like the other one which by the way, I ran right through all of them. The other one is alienated from the entire family, I mean brothers ,sisters, uncles, aunts etc. No true friends and the only one she had who was really nice, she banished, because she felt she betrayed her. (It was trival) . Drinks, pills, some drugs, and I think of that, and she actually was asked to leave a sanctioned 12 step program and that’s a tough act to do. So it seems like a no brainer, but a part of me felt sorry for her too. My fault for openning the door up a crack, but I was longing to hear an apology, closure I guess and I got it. It was a shocker! Hmm, be careful what you wish for, and it this case , even if she is very sincere, my gut and mind tells me she would revert back to who she is, (the old story of the Scorpion and the frog) I agree with you, if she truly see this, raging , cruelty , she should seek professional help, but many are not honest when they do. .Nothing is a 100% in life, black or white, but I think I saw enough actions and she did something similiar a year back stating her bad behavior was caused by the wrong depression meds and that’s not her. I eventually bought into that , and BAM!!! Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!!

  6. jack17
    October 7, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    sorry about the misspelled words I was at work and going to fast but would like to get some feed back on the previous post. THey usually, don’t admit to much and it’s been 4 months now since I seen her. We are not young. we are in are early 60’s

    • justin
      October 7, 2013 at 8:59 pm

      Sorry to hear what your going through but its a vicious cycle. First they beat you down verbally and emotionally then they apologize and build you back up only to break you back down. You pretty much answered your own question when you said “that’s now, what happens in 2 months” the answer is you will be back to square one in a drama filled emotional draining relationship. It is never easy to walk away and shut the door but with these type of women you cannot leave the door open a crack because they will always find a way back in. I guess what im saying until she truly shows you that she has changed and has sought some help I would not dive back into the water. They way it sounds it basically sounds like she is apologizing for things just to get you back then in turn will treat you like crap when she has you. I wish you the best of luck but you must stay strong and be around people that make you feel good about yourself.

    • Mellaril
      October 7, 2013 at 9:35 pm

      Check out Dr. T’s blogs:

      •Hoovers: Don’t Let the Crazy Suck You Back In (March 28, 2012)

      •More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath (July 16, 2012)

  7. jack17
    October 7, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Hi, I know well the actions of a BDP, and their grip is sos os tight. However, I had something happen that I think falls outside what they do. I pretty much blocked her, but of course in my heart wanted the contact. Not good. We went out over 2 years. Lots of raging and making wild accusations, or just ignoring or hurting me. Who would wantthis right? But then sometimes adoring etc, and then the needle would switch in an ionstance without warning.

    He is the probelm that got me scratching my head as this doesn’t sound totally like the typical BPD person (a women in this case) She called a profusinvely apologized for all her actions. She wanted to meet me and take things slow. She was sorry for all the cruel things she has done, and doesn’t blame me for any of it. She said I had nothing to do with her crazy actions. Sh been jounrnaling and trying to find an answer and thinks she was just afraid and overwhelmed. (I don’t think that explains the raging and hitting over nothing) however, she said she will do anything to get me back, and she hasn’t dated anyone and wants only me, and knows she acted cruel. I didn’t try to rub in. I refused to meet with her. This all hurts, and i hurt her, returning her call. But I know she is genuine in her a sorrow and admitting all the crazy behavior to drive me away. STILL I TELL MYSELF, THATS NOW, WHAT HAPPENS 2 MONTH from now when things calm down. I think she will revert back to who she is. I can’t see that changing but was amazed by her admitting all wrong doing and begging for forgiviness, even calling her self a bithc and very cruel hearted.

    Any thoughts on this??

    • Bob
      October 7, 2013 at 8:33 pm

      My ex has done that too.. Apologized for everything then weeks, months, years later she started back on the cycle again. I think if you want to remain healthy about who they are you have to realize they are chameleons that can assume any role. Life is like a series of stanzas and they write them in their head. Constantly remind yourself of what they have done cause they will repeat the behavior. I always said my ex had two good hours a day, too bad each day has 24 hours.

      • jack17
        October 8, 2013 at 2:56 am

        Hi Bob,

        I beleive you are right. No one can treat you badly for months or years, and then say, I treated you bad or cruely, I reconginize that , and I have change. I am so so sorry it, and its all my fault. Especially one that has many emotional issues, and has a long history of detroying relationships etc.and to know she does this and now somehow she see it now, doesnt mean she is cured. Maybe temporarily, I have no idea. we dealing with someone who came become totally irrational, like running out of the car without warning.
        She could be lonely, (though she is very attractice) and could date easily, but I think BPD feel comfortable with someone they know that loves them and they can control. It’s sad, because like I said, I think she is truly sorry for it, but I seriously doubt she can shake who and what she is since I never heard of any BPD person doing that, and trust me, she is BPD with her sudden raging and hate then love. She just hurt me again and it will be worst. I read a lot of blogs on this. I seen her in action and there is no reasoning with her, and she make stuff up too. It’s insanity, and yet they don’t want you to leave. If any of you feel I am wrong on this, let me know because I know for a BDP admitting anything (and she never did before) is unusual. Thanks

        • Bob
          October 8, 2013 at 3:08 am


          I’m divorced from my ex almost four years now.. I still get calls telling me she made a mistake followed by I’m the biggest jerk . They have NO boundaries ! It is like dealing with teenage girl emotionally! They just want to win in the moment. They are very much influenced by friends( which change often) and appearance means everything! Just remember emotionally they work like a Ferris wheel!

  8. justin
    October 2, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Its been 1 month and a week and I have still yet to her back from my ex girlfriend. The last thing I remember was her calling me every name in the book over a fight about my brother’s bachelor party. She believed I lied about aspects of the party which I did not but she was always right and I wasn’t. Anyways she called me stupid, not even on the same level and called me mentally limited followed by I am a creep. She also informed me that her friends were right and saying that I am immature and she can do better. She told me that we don’t even have anything in common. The drawing point was when I kept trying to talk to her and she gave me the silent treatment and called me pathetic and I am a child. I gave her back her house key and left house. I still had a family plan joint cell phone contract with her so I received a text message 2 weeks ago just telling me the number to call to separate the cell phone line. The message just said if I had any problems to let her know. No apology or acknowledge of what happen no nothing. It seemed as though she has moved on in her mind or actually found someone else. I didn’t bother to respond and decided to continue not contacting her because It was for the best. The following week after the blow up we were suppose to go to my brother’s wedding but I decided it was best to not call her and go solo. I am sure that pissed her off but frankly I didn’t care because the things she said to me. We have broken up before and she always kept the cell phone plan and created so much drama by texting me pictures of her with another guy or saying mean things. I was just surprised that she actually was civil and there was no drama after a month but she gave me the number to call to split the cell phone contract. I continue to keep myself busy but always wondering in my head if she truly has let me go and is gone or she is just in hiding for now. We were in a relationship for 5 years so It was just weird for her to leave so easily and not think anything of it.

  9. Reb
    September 5, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    Is there any advice for a woman who is seriously dating the divorced man? I have been seeing this man for a little over a year and have dealt with his NPD ex-wife (not really knowing or understanding the situation). I’ve recently realized that this woman is a text book NPD woman. They have 2 kids together (of which, she is a CLASSIC NPD mother …). I don’t totally understand this behavior or how to deal with it. He (and his kids) are important enough to me to figure out what they need and what I can do … Master Manipulator is the Perfect Term for this woman. What do I do?

    • Mellaril
      September 5, 2013 at 11:52 pm

      Head over to the Forum. There are several women there in your situation.

  10. Mark
    August 7, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Wow, I didn’t even know what narcissism was until I my girlfriend and I broke up. And she 100% was a female narcissist! It’s crazy, because she sucked me in then treated me so poorly and I kept treating her well. I finally had the courage (not knowing she had this personality disorder) and moved to another city 8 hours away. We were together for 7 months at that point. I thought we were done, then she started showing she cared again. After 4 months of a roller coaster long distance relationship, and I actually considered moved back (thank God I didn’t!) we had a crazy fight and ended it. It’s been almost 2 weeks, and I know I won’t call her, but I can’t help but still think about her and wish we could have ended it on good terms. I would love to share all the details how crazy her behavior was, but from what I’ve read, it’s all the same same same. Can anyone share some tips and getting over her? I would love to exchange some emails of my experiences with her if anyone would like to offer some words of wisdom and know what I experienced with someone whom I thought I met was the love of my life.

    • guy
      August 8, 2013 at 9:21 pm

      mark, all i can suggest is dont look back. she lives in a dark world. ignore her if she trys to contact you. if you give in, she wins. dont give her the satisfation. they are takers by nature and the only thing they give is anxiety…. read up & self educate. move forward with out her. they will only spin you stay off social media & make off like she never existed….she really never did “exist” it was all a fabricated lie & her only intent was deception. she is a master manipulator who project the inner hatred of herself onto you

  11. TeeCee
    July 29, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    Exactly what I have experienced even today

  12. Simon London
    May 25, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Hi Dr T & everyone.appoligies Dr T for my last comment not being put on.suppose this is all part of recovery learning how to express oneself a lot better.apologies.Im nearing the last stage of the divorce with my ‘crazy’ at the point of if she is going to be fair in splitting our assets in half,the simple & quickest way,or the long drawn out drama of a year in court.not holding my breath for the easiest option!i accidentally lost my cash card the other week & found two other cash cards amongst the boxes of paperwork she had stuffed in carrier bags & dumped at my solicitors office.used one of the cards in my name thinking must be something to do with my own personal account(I left all banking to ‘crazy)but no,it was apparently one of our joint accounts which we had when we split in March but then recently she changed into her own personal account.damn me again for not being telepathic. now because of this restraining order on me for two years she is trying to get me arrested again because it has caused her so much distress!!omg,this woman is relentless in wanting to break me.ive been beaten to a pulp at Xmas,again,so decided after 15years of the madness to jump ship (found a voice in me i thought was gone)arrested when I didnt give in to her after shouting back & saying its over for good,chucked out of my house overnight and a two year restraining order & living out of a suitcase until this divorce is finalised.this still is not enough for her.i can only put this down to the fact is that I have not given in & not jumping of a bridge.ive been told by the police I can press charges against her for the attack at Xmas as I learnt when I found DrTs site last year to tape record,& keep a diary & take pictures of bruises& busted items in the house.& yet i still wont do this for two reasons.i couldnt stand to have two parallel costly cases running along aside each other & living eating & breathing in her toxic breath anymore than what i have to.& secondly i believe in Karma!! I was leaving 7 years ago,we got back together after I met a really ‘nice’woman,but wasnt used to ‘nice’ so ended back with my ‘crazy’ under even stringent conditions “that I stop drinking”,this was our problem,so i stopped for 18 months,still she was crazy,then”bored of being with someone who doesn’t drink”(screaming & hitting whilst saying all these things)so I leave AA,then my daughter from a previous crazy relationship moves in,still the madness continues,”she has to leave”don’t breathe,don’t laugh,why do you laugh so much blah blah etc etc etc.ive jumped thru fire for this woman,lost family,friends myself,my business has suffered but most of all my daughter is damaged thru her step mum saying “love you,love you not” & me allowing her to leave.heart breaking & ill never get that back but my daughter & I are healing together now.my ex to be “crazy” is in her element with this divorce,she can be the real nutter she is & i bet she is glowing inside to be as nasty as she wants to be,but what will she do when im not her outlet??she has a high powered job within our border force agency & Is a magistrate in her spare time to flagellate her self.she thinks she is above the law & me so many notches below her is now going to see how powerful she is.ah,all because I wanted to leave her,shame on me that I didnt want to fight anymore & end up dribbling in a corner with a straight jacket on!!but I’ve found a wicked ‘female lawyer’ who isn’t scared of her & fully understands men in our position as her father in law went thru it aswell.we have a web site over here in the uk called Mankind Initiative which is a site for abused men &lists all lawyers who have experience in handling these stressful divorces.its hard to all you guys in the same position,if your ultra sensitive like me then we’ve taken on all the stuff they’ve dumped on us.nothing worse when on your own you think ‘was it really that bad,perhaps if I had just tweaked this a little bit more then we could of worked,perhaps if i,if i…ran round the world with a banner saying I LOVE MY CRAZY this may make her see im not a bad guy.’ That’s Crap!!!if you’ve found your inner strength to say ‘I’m leaving you & I mean it’ then we have to believe we will get well with hard work wanting to get well because we have our own voice without our ‘crazy s’ controlling us.nothing has or will ever make them happy.not the next guy or the next or th………………. They can’t feel what they don’t feel.Thanks Dr T & to all guys on here sharing & wanting to get well.together we march on for a ‘Crazy’ free life. Simon London

    • Texan
      July 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm

      You had feelings for her that went beyond friendship. It’s clear. She sucked you in. Same thing happened to me. I was a fool and it’s hard to admit it… I feel shame. For me, the no contact is ok, but the lack of closure is torture. I just want to know if she ever loved me (as she said she did) or if it was all just some sick game to her.

      • Texan
        July 10, 2013 at 6:30 pm

        This was meant for Allen. I hit reply on the wrong message.

  13. Allen
    May 23, 2013 at 4:43 am

    Dr. T,

    This article and the comments really hit home. I had a female friend who was like my sister. Her husband and I had been roommates at one time, and their children called me their uncle. They went out of their way to make me feel like family. But after about two years, the cracks started to show. Small disagreements (and sometimes even things I wasn’t aware of doing) resulted in days of the silent treatment, followed by a lecture on why the dispute was my fault. Once, she even told me that I wasn’t allowed to be mad about the silent treatment, because I wasn’t allowed to expect her to talk to me or reply to me. It would be miserable, but then things would be normal for a few weeks. All the while, her husband’s advice to me was that “you just have to let her be and ride it out.”

    Things finally came crashing down a few months ago. We all had planned a weekend trip to the casinos. At the last second, she changed plans to a new trip, and the new timetable meant that I got ditched. I told her that I wasn’t cool with her waiting till the last second to do that. She totally shut me out from then on. The only time we spoke, she again informed me that I caused all of this by “making a big deal out of nothing,” then called me names. I told her that weeks of the silent treatment was a pathetic way to handle things. We haven’t spoken since. Now I’ve been left out of their son’s birthday and graduation (I’ve been a part of his life since he was a toddler), and no one else in the family will speak to me either. I was ignored again when I tried to wish her son a happy birthday, and as a result, I have decided to attempt no contact, as I can no longer deal with this sort of treatment.

    I would appreciate any thoughts anyone may have, as I am very sad to have lost not only a friend, but an entire family, over a seemingly minor disagreement. It’s like I never existed, let alone mattered. I feel like I was just a disposable part. It is very confusing and at times physically painful to me.

  14. Roger
    May 21, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Apologies I appear to have posted same comment twice..oops.
    Someone asked me recently how i ended up with a woman like my ex..I replied “do you know how to boil a frog?”…slowly slowly..If i raised objections to her behaviour I was ;”mr Parsley”..this meant basically she did not like being questioned at all..most of the time she would disappear back to her ex husband…an awful lot of weekends..and make out nothing was happening..of course I did not like this..the more I objected the more she got angry…no win ..that I stayed for nearly 5 years…talk about normalised behaviour…eventually in the last year of the relationship she fessed up that she had been sleeping with him all along…I still sometimes look in the mirror to see if something was/is printed on my forehead…looking back again today..I see a wide mile cruel streak in her behavior…her actions…her projection of anger onto me…as PaRsley…so I refused to sleep with her…then stoppped giving her money then stopped repairing her farm then got all my stuff and moved out..and she then had something..NASTY…to say to me …get out..9SHE ALSO WANTED MOST OF MY MONEY AND MY VAN..MY ONLY TRANSPORT IN THE nORWEGIAN MOUNTAINS….I loved her very much..but realised that she was not loving me…except as her ..thing…cleaner…fuck…stable hand money giver…a sort of object…like a robot….what still amazes me is that this woman a teacher and former headmaster was so calculating so capable of this behaviour..it really showed me just how naive i was…I still have not contacted her…but have been tempted …but really..for what purpose to what end…
    maybe i just want to state what i have stated here…but it wont change a thing..i feel as if i hve been living in a tank of minnows as a minnow and she is some sort of pretty…but deadly pike…it feels like a mindfuck…a sort of brainwashing..hard to put a handle on…but i know all the lonley facts ad the long days i spent alone ..the more I look back the weirder it feels..I realise too how lonely I must have been in the first place and think its time took again at my needs and self esteem….its like being in the hobbit…its a long walk to the mountain…the lonely mountain…starved of affection the flooded…then starved..then flooded…living on an emotional sex hook..horrible horrible….still feeling crap about it all..perhaps less crap than 6 months ago…but craplies lies and lies…about her horrble husbansd his bullying brother…and there`s me Mr gullible white knight …not a pleasnt feeling ..used ok thats my rant for now lol ..

    • Gordon
      May 23, 2013 at 6:14 am

      You have grown stronger just from reading your posts. You can do this. You’ll start to notice yourself. There is a YOU. DON’T contact her. She not a nice, sweet, innocent person. She is probably wrapped up in her own little confusing world. She must like the drama and causing pain to others to make herself feel better. You’ll get past it and a strong, intelligent, caring woman will appear in your life and she’ll actually care about your feelings too!

  15. Roger
    May 20, 2013 at 4:10 am

    Roger :
    Hi All..Its been nearly or about two months perhaps 6 weeks since I last posted on here. I have maintained no contact and realize that I cannot or will not get proper closure. I have been accused of some things ..I did not say and have not done by my narcissistic ex..I have been very tempted to put that straight by explaining via email etc or worse a phone call…and this has so far been resisted,..but i have to admit that I also feel sad and angry ..in fact I have been surprised that I am still having these feelings 6 months after final separation…I feel more angry now than I did months ago..which feels a bit odd to say the least.
    However i do realize that no contact is best…I want things to be different…but they are not and it does not feel normal…like large parts of the relationship…the hurt is taking time to go …I guess this will just take a while to pass…it feels skewed like the relationship..as if all the onus the responsibility of it ..in its entirety was somehow my fault…I know it was`nt …yet I begin to wonder if there is a danger of attracting a narcissistic woman again…it has certainly made me think ..what is it about me.?…that I need to look at…that in a real way I need to take responsibility…at least for my part in the relationship..that I should have been stronger much sooner before I cooperated in the way she hurt me…perhaps all I can do is to be aware…become more aware of my personality type…and be aware of or clued up about narcissistic behavior more thoroughly…(I have had some work the past 6 weeks but am unemployed again..it went well they want me back later in the year ).looking again…I still do not feel that confident..I have wondered if that was part of the attraction in the first place…the way she made me feel…that i needed what she gave me ..but at tremendous cost to my psyche down the line..and after ..it has left me feeling I am vulnerable…that I wanted her love to the extent I ignored all the danger signals…that I have to trust myself more ..and live with that that I should enter into the cave of a bear rather than face the foest outside…telling me something about my life…that i have been avoiding..that I need to face…it can only be fixed by me…and how to do it…that is the question I am facing now.

  16. Roger
    May 16, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    I very nearly broke the contact rule today and had to fight hard not to do so…aaaaaagh

  17. Roger
    April 29, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    Hi All..Its been nearly or about two months perhaps 6 weeks since I last posted on here. I have maintained no contact and realize that I cannot or will not get proper closure. I have been accused of some things ..I did not say and have not done by my narcissistic ex..I have been very tempted to put that straight by explaining via email etc or worse a phone call…and this has so far been resisted,..but i have to admit that I also feel sad and angry ..in fact I have been surprised that I am still having these feelings 6 months after final separation…I feel more angry now than I did months ago..which feels a bit odd to say the least.
    However i do realize that no contact is best…I want things to be different…but they are not and it does not feel normal…like large parts of the relationship…the hurt is taking time to go …I guess this will just take a while to pass…it feels skewed like the relationship..as if all the onus the responsibility of it ..in its entirety was somehow my fault…I know it was`nt …yet I begin to wonder if there is a danger of attracting a narcissistic woman again…it has certainly made me think ..what is it about me.?…that I need to look at…that in a real way I need to take responsibility…at least for my part in the relationship..that I should have been stronger much sooner before I cooperated in the way she hurt me…perhaps all I can do is to be aware…become more aware of my personality type…and be aware of or clued up about narcissistic behavior more thoroughly…(I have had some work the past 6 weeks but am unemployed again..it went well they want me back later in the year ).looking again…I still do not feel that confident..I have wondered if that was part of the attraction in the first place…the way she made me feel…that i needed what she gave me ..but at tremendous cost to my psyche down the line..and after ..it has left me feeling I am vulnerable…that I wanted her love to the extent I ignored all the danger signals…that I have to trust myself more ..and live with that that I should enter into the cave of a bear rather than face the foest outside…telling me something about my life…that i have been avoiding..that I need to face…it can only be fixed by me…and how to do it…that is the question I am facing now.

  18. Wounded
    April 10, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Hi community,
    My husband found this website after urging from his therapist, and he identified with a post that matched his affair partner exactly. (I think it was “How a relationship with a BPD woman starts” or similar.) Because I’m here, clearly we’re working on making our marriage work. I’m trying to understand better how he got to where he did with her and how to help him recover. (For the record, I feel plenty of anger and sadness, but I want our marriage and us as individuals to heal and strengthen.)

    He is satisfied with his closure: He cut off all personal contact and most work contact. He can largely ignore her except for rare occasions when they have to interact, and then he’s as sterile and emotionless as possible. His ability to shut her out feels good to him, and that’s all the closure he needs.

    But it’s not good enough for me. Aside from the anxiety I feel while he’s at work, I have a hard time getting over the fact that she mills about, trashing people’s lives with no repercussion. She masterfully poisoned him against me, offered/threatened to kill me so they could be together (of course immediately saying she didn’t mean it, forgive her), intentionally stonewalled me to play mind games when I found out about the affair, and then sent a horrible Facebook message to me when she realized after the breakup that he wasn’t going back to her. And that’s just me. She had told my husband of past boyfriends she tormented into therapy.

    Realizing that she is highly likely to have BPD has lifted my desire for vindication, but I still want closure and for her to not just keep doing this to people. I’m sure now that’s she tasted “winning a married man,” she won’t stop.

    I want to close up the wound. My husband is aggressively looking for a new job and maybe that will be enough. I have a letter that I didn’t send (but would like to) that in short says thank you for making our marriage stronger and sorry your life is so miserable. But if she is mentally ill, I am afraid of how she may react. I don’t want to put my husband in a hostile situation at work, and I don’t want her to hurt herself. Just to stop hurting other people.

    Any suggestions or tips on how to get my closure?

  19. Jay
    March 26, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    PS: this is a girl that always complained how she’s been hurt in previous relationsips, by her family, everyone pretty much. she misrepresented herself completely when we met and over the course of our relationship. Made me fall inlove and drew me very close. asked me if she was the one! after the honeymoon period ofc all the problems ensued and she started acting crazy and abusing me (verbally and emotionally) – alternating that with moments of very lobing behaviour -telling me how im the one good thing in her life.
    I was even aware of her past and sleeping with men for money around the 4 month of our relationship when i caught texts between her and a guy setting up meetings. she admitted seeing him before we started dating and asssured me she never slept with him since we’ve been together and all that was happening now was him pursuing her and her giving him excuses not to meet. I believed evrth and we went back together.
    So I was understanding, forgiving and gave her so many chances to seek a better life but regardless of all that she just ended up throwing it all away and reverting to her fucked up ways.
    Just thought i’d share some background to prove she is BPD (she fits all the descriptions)

    • Texan
      July 10, 2013 at 6:47 pm

      I’m not sure she’s a BPD. Mine could/would never admit to being anything but perfect…. even after getting caught red handed. Maybe yours was bipolar or something else.

  20. Jay
    March 26, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    i was involved with what i am starting to think is ahighly BPD girl for 7 months. The constant ups and downs, hot and warm, craziness,etc. it was all there. to make a long story really short she started initiating fights over the smallest things which brings us to our last fight. after i tried to break it off nicely by saying that perhaps we are not meant to be and that i still care for her and she is great but we should go our seperate ways n wished her all the best. She responded with along text admiting how she is depressed, detached, in pain, etc. i felt genuine concern and told her ill be there for her. we made up for 1 day. the following morning i woke up to a text saying how this has to stop, she cant keep accepting my love, how she is dead inside, heartless, a snake, cheating, lying, worthless, nothing (all her words). brce yourself here – she also admitted sleeping with guys for money and seeing someone who makes her feel like garbage and abuses her. telling me in that same text i should leave her alone. same day, a few hours later she asks if we can meet so she can frop sme things off to me. i dont respond, she comes at the said meeting place, calls, texts, etc. no response from me. she finally gets frustrated and texts that she is throwing away all the things she came out to give me and that i shouldn’t worry about her EVER again. i have not responded to anything. 18 days go by with no communication since that day and i get a text at 12am the other day saying – i am sorry that i hurt you. goodbye.
    ok my question is WTF? i call bullshit on her saying sorry after all she’s done, but a lot of u say that BPD people never say sorry. Also it’s just odd that this text comes after 18 days and it is so short – it doesnt even seem like a genuine text that is meant for closure.
    Please advise – is that some sort of plea to see if she gets a reaction, a hoover maneuver, real regret and saying her goodbye?? Please let me know what you think?
    Much appreciated.

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