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No Contact Includes Not Keeping Tabs on your Ex Via Facebook, Twitter, Blogs or MySpace


For those of you who are following the No Contact Rule and have stopped calling, emailing, texting and staging accidental run-ins or have stopped responding to calls, emails, texts and are actively avoiding probable run-ins, congratulations! It’s difficult to remove the hooks of an abusive ex—especially if they’re personality disordered (e.g., narcissistic, borderline, histrionic or sociopathic).

If you’ve recently broken up with a crazy and/or abusive wife or girlfriend, the No Contact Rule is explained in the following articles:

Many readers have shared that while they’ve been able to go no contact and stop telephonic and electronic communication with their exes, they’re still visiting their exes’ Facebook, MySpace and other social network pages, blogs and Twitter feeds. I hate to break it to you, but visiting your ex’s various web pages—even if there’s no interaction—is a form of contact and is just as unhealthy as talking, emailing or texting with her. Stop it, stop it, stop it.

Visiting your ex’s web pages is worse than going through your old scrapbook, photos, letters or emails or mentally revisiting whatever happy moments or infrequent episodes of normalcy that you shared. These events are in the past. Actively remembering them is an unhealthy and masochistic form of nostalgia.

Keeping yourself abreast of her current activities online creates fresh pain for you every time you do it. The same holds true for well-intentioned news updates. If friends, colleagues or family members are carrying tales about her latest misadventures, respectfully and firmly tell them that you prefer not to hear about her anymore. The pain is supposed to stop once the relationship ends. Monitoring your ex’s ongoing shenanigans has several unhealthy and unproductive consequences.

1. Rubbing salt in your wounds. An abusive narcissistic, histrionic, borderline or unspecified crazy ex will use her online presence to:

  • Rub your nose in her brand new, “most amazing boyfriend ever!
  • Rub your nose in her “new found happiness and peace” that she’s never known before.
  • Trash you publicly.
  • Use your old photos, etc., as normalcy props.

Observing these four behaviors or some variation of them will only hurt you and/or make you crazy, so stop taking the bait.

2. Giving you a false sense of connection. When a relationship ends, most people need to go through a distancing period in order to recover from the loss. If your ex wasn’t abusive and your relationship was basically healthy, perhaps you can be friends some day in the future. A relationship with an abusive person is neither healthy nor normal. Therefore, there is no basis for a future friendship.

Perhaps she’ll keep you on a string for future ego boosts or to torment you if she’s bored, but that’s not friendship—it’s more of the same old same old that caused the relationship to unravel in the first place. Keeping tabs on her keeps you connected to her; even if it’s only morbid curiosity. Surely there’s a better way to spend your time that will help you feel good.

3. Giving you new information to ruminate upon. Again, there are better ways to spend your time. If you really want her out of your heart, mind and life, keeping abreast of her most recent train wrecks and distortions is not the way to do it.

4. Falling into the trap of analysis paralysis. This is another form of unproductive rumination. Why is she like this? Why couldn’t she be happy with me? What’s wrong with her? What could I have done differently? How could she move on so quickly with another guy? Why does she still have photos of us together on her profile? Why? Why? Why?

You can torture yourself endlessly with these questions. Over-analyzing her and the relationship is not the way forward. It won’t change anything. Furthermore, if trying to make meaning out of her crazy and meaningless behavior isn’t bringing you peace and closure, you need to knock it off.

There may very well be good reasons why your ex is the way she is. Ultimately, however, the reasons why she is abusive do not matter. What matters is how she treats the people she claims to love. Abuse is wrong no matter the reasons. There’s no excuse for abuse. It’s a slippery slope from finding excuses for her abusive behavior and making excuses and enabling her abusive behavior.

5. Keeping your anger and hurt alive. She’s not worth your sanity and your happiness. You have a right to be angry for the way she treated you. However, nursing your anger by finding new reasons to be upset is not productive. Feel your anger. Express it in healthy ways and then let it and her go.

6. Continuing to feed the beast it’s favorite treat: Attention. Even if you don’t respond to her online attention seeking behavior, you’re still giving her attention by visiting these sites.

Legitimate Reasons to Keep Social Media Surveillance. There are some legitimate reasons to keep tabs on your ex via the Internet. For example, if you’re gathering evidence for a divorce and/or custody case, if she is making physical threats and you need evidence for a restraining order or if you want to file a libel lawsuit for an online smear campaign/cyberstalking. If you aren’t compiling evidence for an impending court case, to initiate a protective order or because you’re concerned about your children’s welfare, there’s no reason to visit her profiles (including Internet dating profiles), blogs or follow her Tweets.

Outta Sight, Outta Mind.

Perhaps this isn’t true at first, but it’s the ultimate goal. Unless visiting her web pages makes you feel good—i.e., “I’m so glad I’m not with this wingnut anymore“—or you’re gathering evidence for legal purposes, there’s absolutely no reason to do so. Find a buddy to IM, call or hang out with when you feel tempted to click the mouse. Go for a run. Play a video game. Find something to distract yourself with until the urge passes and you feel strong again. Trust me, you’ll be glad you did.

Shrink4Men Coaching and Consultation Services:

Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.

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  1. kirk g
    May 4, 2010 at 2:03 am

    just kidding about the “bone to pick with you” dr. t. ( i was just making sure i got your attention, yeah, like i needed to)you do such a great job in response in these forums it amazes me at times. your right. a smear campaign would backfire on me and make me look immature. the fact of the matter is that when people questioned me at the rink about us not being together and i told them we broke up, some not only felt a sigh of relief but chimed in on their wariness of her in the past. this stunned me. sometimes as they say, “you are the last to know”. in this, when she sees the convo she assumes that im trashing her, but its the other way around or a “mutual expose”. after i leave the person, she doubles back to ask them “is he talking about me?” and they always say no. it has been months since i have not said a word to her. thank god. it is as if she is making it look like i am stalking her at the rink somehow. but how can i? i don’t even look her way and it is a public place. it must take a lot of energy for these aliens to make up these scenarios in their mind. i promise myself and you dr t. i will not make her day by giving her ammunition so she can now cry “victim”. but i must confess dr t, of another reason why i am doing this. please hear me out. as you are well aware of in the news and tabloids of how men celebs and entertainers are cheating on their wives like crazy. man’s greatest weakness is sex. we all know that. my fear is that one day “lily” will show up at my door with the fantasy sex gear she used to wear for me, seduce me, then cry rape! with her being white and me being black, i don’t even have to explain how tough that is going to be to get out of, with traces of my sperm inside her, self inflicted bruises, etc. im in jail and she has the rink all to herself! i know how she thinks. i think, feel, and know i will be strong enough to resist but i still pray because our sex was the bomb. pray for me my family forum. i may need it.

  2. Kari
    May 3, 2010 at 3:00 am

    kirk g :within weeks we knew we had something special in love and talked marriage….i introduced her to mom, friends, family, i got of rid of the phone numbers, the porn collection, the going out with friends, whatever she asked so we can focus on the relationship. in summary, Lily did not love kirk as family friends and strangers warned. she loved what kirk could do for her and make her feel. this was her twisted version of love. she preys on men who are the opposite of her, stable, strong, with money… she enters into a relationship to take, not give, to hurt, not heal, to control, not work with the man as a partner.

    Hi Kirk:

    Just wanted to point out a few things you said that have RED FLAG on them (for the rest of us–yup, me included–to watch out for…
    “Within a few weeks” you spoke of marriage…usually not a good sign…they want to “catch” you before you have a chance to get to know their true nature. Then you feel committed, and like the bad guy for wanting out (but, I’m already committed.) Bad idea. I learned that one the hard way.

    You said you did “whatever she asked” –not to presume, but that seems as though those things you were doing were not necessarily because you wanted to, but were requests (demands) made by her…when one person is making all the demands in the relationship, and you feel like you HAVE to do anything to MAKE / KEEP them happy, that’s a RED FLAG!!! If you can’t be yourself and allow the relationship to move along naturally, also red flag.

    Another interesting thing, they all seem to come on with sex like porn queens…sorry, men, but you do tend to fall for that. Here’s what I’d like my nephews to be aware of: easy / slutty women = emotionally disturbed women…who will (not might) drag you through the mud make your life HELL. Nothing wrong with having healthy desires, but when she’s wearing you out every night (I know, I know, it’s hard to resist), please, please, please remember the above formula!!

    “Lily did not love Kirk…she loved what Kirk could do for her…” YUP!! They have an image of “husband” or in my case “wife” and you must comply with that image. It’s not YOU they want; it’s that block of stone they intend to mold into their image of ‘perfection.’ If someone says “I love you for doing that” or “I Love you because you make me feel…” Probably not a good sign.

    “As friends and family warned…” no matter how dysfunctional a background you may come from, when all your friends and family are saying the same thing…you might reconsider your commitment to your potential spouse. This is a difficult one, especially if you come from a family who hasn’t always been supportive or if your parent(s) have objected to pretty much everyone before.

    I don’t mean to insult you in any way, Kirk (i.e. shoulda known better)…that’s not the message I mean to send…it’s just…I recognize so much of it from my experience, and also have seen it in others’ relationships.

    My parents wanted me to marry a certain external ‘type’ (i.e. a farmer, someone who could sing, etc.) but I wished they would have asked me: “How does [potential spouse] treat you?” and “How do you feel when you are around [potential spouse]?” Here’s what I will ask my girls; “How do you feel and think about YOURSELF when / after you’ve been around [potential spouse]?”

    Some things to consider when contemplating future relationships. Best of Luck and God Bless,
    Kari

  3. kirk g
    May 2, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    I HAVE A BONE TO PICK WITH YOU DR. T! Well sort of. i follow your no contact rule to a point. let me explain. me and my bdp ex girlfriend skate at the same roller rink. should i stop going? hell no! when i appear, she leaves! why? in our major breakup arguements i threatened to expose her to my skate friends out there and she was horrified! she says she knows how she is but want to keep it secret, so she can fool and control others at the rink that she is this great person( mostly teenagers… keep in mind this is a 43 yr old woman!) NOT ON MY WATCH! i have been skating there for 20 yrs. she has for 3! and she says they are her people! can you believe that? i have seen her treat guys like crap and make them disappear from the rink. that was before i got to really know her. the point in all this? you said yourself that what they fear the most is punishment and exposure, you are 100 percent right as i have seen this with my own eyes and now others at the rink, including her next potential “victims” are starting to see the real her. i am a super nice guy like the others, but she did not realize i can be super bad guy if you dog me. i’m one of those new york guys that if you screw me, i screw you back 10 times over to send a clear message: there is a consequence if you do this to the wrong person! I realize what we as men have went thru on this this site relating to bdp women and the kindred spirt we share. HOWEVER… Enough is enough! are we all to just lick our wounds together as we come to this forum, or should we punish or expose these bdp women? let me be clear. make no mistake. i’m not talking revenge here but i am suggesting and advancing the idea that they should be made to feel a consequence for their actions. just like the kids they act like, as parents we forgive them but they still must be punished to send a clear message: this is the result when you treat good people bad. will this change them? of course not. no more than a serial rapist, child molester, or serial killer would… but at the same time, we don’t let them get a “free get out of jail card” to go unchallenged to the next victim.that would make us guilty as them. we as men were done wrong here, make no mistake, but a lot of it we are at fault for. to let them waltz away is once again our fault, which is why this pattern keeps happening over and over. we actually give these animals a fertile enviornment to feed on u with no accountability or responsibility! let me give an example: a known child molester moves in your neighborhood, an a alert goes out to the residence of who this person is. this may not stop him, but at least someting was done instead of moaning and groaning about what was done in the past. indeed, it is now time to become proactive and be men again, for as the great machiavelli once said: “better to be respected than loved or liked.” besides her leaving the rink shows her guilt, to me and to others and it makes me feel great! now i know what they mean by the saying : “if out of all this if i can save one person…” so in summary this is a proactive movei am doing and will continue to do instead of just licking past wounds. try it, it will make you feel better as a person and as a man and you will feel somewhat redeemed of the mistakes you made. and p.s., a bonus! after exposing her to the world you’d think twice about getting back with her because all the people you told will think your crazy! give me your best shot, dr t. and panel, i’m kirk g, “new york tough.”

    • shrink4men
      May 2, 2010 at 11:21 pm

      Hi Kirk G,

      I’m not sure what bone you’re trying to pick with me. This blog is all about making men and women aware re: individuals like your ex, how to protect yourself, how to avoid them and how to move on. I think men should talk to each other more about these experiences—not just on this blog/forum, but in real time, face to face. Warn each other about these women. If you can expose your ex without it coming back to bite you in the ass; go for it.

      You’re right. These women get away with murder, highway robbery, etc., because no one holds them accountable and they therefore rarely suffer consequences for their bad behavior. I think ending the relationship and denying them the attention they crave is a pretty good consequence. There’s a fine line between telling your close friends and family the truth about what went down in your relationship and telling casual acquaintances. The former is well within your right; the latter borders on a smear campaign—even if the information is true. Also, it might make you look like the bitter loon if you go up to people just to tell them what a crazy biatch she is. Just sayin’.

      That’s my 2-cents. Glad you got custody of the roller rink and congrats on ending the relationship.

      Best,
      Dr T

    • chester
      May 3, 2010 at 2:07 am

      Kirk g…I wrestle with “payback” in my mind all the time. But, what I always realize..is that she thrives on drama/attention-good or bad. I would just give her a chance to run around playing the victim. My retaliation would give her a Narcissistic “feeding” It would show that I am suffering, and so I lash out. Bingo! She wins! Again. The best revenge is successful living. The best payback towards her is silent indifference. No telling her off. No squealin and crying to get her back. Just disappear. Believe me….it has the same effect as throwing water on the Wicked Witch of the West!

  4. grant
    May 1, 2010 at 2:00 am

    I have an ex who is trying to find out how my mom is doing (she has cancer), she’s so worried, I’m not telling her anything, and she’s afraid to ask my mom. Then she says to my sister-in-law (who ignores her, but the ex keeps bothering her anyway), “I wish you guys could hear my side of the story on this whole divorce. I’m sure everyone feels sorry for him. :(” Then another – “Divorce is two-sided.”

    The only thing I’ll give my ex in this divorce is I did agree to it. She didn’t CAUSE the divorce, it wasn’t her FAULT we divorced. I know I played a part in us growing apart.

    How would you describe this BPD/NPD person, who feels she has to defend herself to MY side of the family? Or can I find that somewhere on this site? I don’t feel like having to defend myself at all. I know what happened, I have proof.

  5. Brian
    April 26, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Here’s my correct email. Please contact me. I think my estranged wife
    may have a disorder and I need help.

    Brian

  6. Brian
    April 26, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    I’d lIke to talk to you Dr. Tara, but I can’t find your contact info. Please contact me via email. I think you may be able to help me.

    Brian

  7. Wellston
    April 17, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    I can remember the early days of my relationship with my significant other. She was showing odd signs and red flags were going off. I tried to end it on numerous times, but she kept calling me. Being the person who knew nothing of personality disorders, and a person who wants to please people, I responded to her calls. I was pulled back in, because I was being stressed. She was even showing up on my doorstep.

    To this day, the relationship is all about her, her desires, and her needs. If I disagree with her, she claims that I’ve hurt her. If I defend myself, exclaiming that I’m simply disagreeing with her, or that she’s misinterpreting my concerns or points of view, I’m told to “think about how you’ve hurt me”. I’m told that I need to get right, when I don’t start any of the arguments. She claims that I start things with her, but I merely ask questions, or have a different opinion, and for that arguments start and I’m “treating her badly” or “talking to her badly”. She also claims that other people, namely friends, have told her in private how badly that I treat her, and these same people act the same way around me that they always have, nor have I seen them respond to me with any concerns. I happen to think that perhaps she’s making it all up.

  8. vincent
    April 14, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Keeping far away and maintaining a no contact mode is very important for the following reason.
    Your ex nut job of a gf might one day mess with the wrong dude and if things
    turn real nasty , one does not want to be even close to a list of possible
    suspects

    • Josh
      April 25, 2010 at 3:23 pm

      Another good reason for maintaining NC with your ex-BPD/NPD is for the sake of your future girlfriends or wife. The last thing you want is for her and/or you to get stalked by a crazy ex-GF who might be having second thoughts about breaking up with you.

      As for the posters who mentioned losing a big chunk of mutual friends after the break-up, I know all too well how you feel. I had to delete all of our mutual friends from my social sites since they stopped speaking to me months ago and when I tried to contact them, I got no response either there or in e-mail. I can only imagine what she’s told them. Best thing for us to do is to keep on networking and make all new friends. Resurrect old hobbies and interests you may have tossed aside during the relationship, develop new ones, join clubs, anything like that. Not only can we make new friends, but we could also meet some future romantic interests along the way!:-D

  9. Other Dan
    April 14, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Dr. Tara – Just a chuckle here – I am always on the guard against my own temptation to “judge a book by its cover” with respect to profile pages and profile images especially, and I have to be on guard because it’s just too easy to slip into doing that (i.e.: like being on guard against your own, known weakness), BUT … from time to time there comes along that profile or that image that just cries out “I am personality type … !!!”, almost to the point that if the person wasn’t unconsciously communicating something true by way of her appearance, then she must be consciously communicating something false (i.e.: acting basically) … so, long-winded way around to ask: where did you find that stock image? Talk about “nailed it”.

  10. db
    April 14, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Another online trick of soon-to-be ex NPD wife was to post online ads in the myriad of online dating and sex partner services that are out there. That was the early beginnings in 2007 of my discovery of how her husband (me) was sub-par in nearly every category of life and she needed stimulation of the mental, emotional, sexual — and especially financial kind — I was such a failure to provide.
    What was I doing during this time? working around the clock on my job (fairly well paying I might add) and then at home to take full care of two young children while her social calender (also kept very secretive) exploded and she was never home.
    Any question of her conduct or conversation about her actions was met with fury and rage for weeks, then months…until I just stopped caring to avoid the rage. The tide turned from there into every facet of life where she bullied me into submission, including physical assaults.
    Thankfully, I had the will to file for divorce in January and have primary care of children. But the harassment has never slowed through endless phone calls, threats during child drop-offs or pickups and yesterday the latest of her filing a complaint about my care of children to children’s aid. I see no end, but doing my best to stick to no contact rule as much as possible.
    Luckily the childrens aid care worker appears to recognize nothing wrong with me and something off with her, but I’m holding my breath on that.
    It’s very exhausting and just plain sad. I read everything I can in here and take solace in how it gets better…and that would be when??

    • Recovering Alpha
      April 15, 2010 at 4:58 pm

      db

      I understand. In my case, and I feel like SUCH A CHUMP! (ouch!!!), I found out from my daycare people that my ex, who was a “stay home Mom”, was regularly dropping off the two preschoolers at their houses for the ENTIRE DAY. What was she doing all that time? I don’t know. I’m not going to dig to find out; don’t care anymore. But she also would leave at night to “get away from the kids for a while” (see previous statement about day care) from 730 PM to 11 or 12 midnight; she did this 2 to 3 times each week. What was she doing? She said she went to local bookstore to “unwind”. I now highly doubt.

      What bothers me MOST is that I trusted her and never suspected a F’n thing! Mon Dieu! I feel so stupid now looking back at it all. Here was a mother of four married nearly TWO DECADES and she was most probably having an affair (other women laugh when I use the words “most probably”) and so deep in lies and deceit. It makes me feel like puking now. How can a mother do that to her family and children. I just can not understand nor will I ever. As my own Mom and sister have told me (and they saw all this WAY earlier than I), “just let it go” & “you’ll never understand it”.

      • Mellaril
        April 15, 2010 at 5:27 pm

        And remember, whatever it was she was doing, you “made her do it…” right along with all the other things you did like…

        Global warming, the Exxon Veldez spill, world hunger, the common cold, the earthquake in Haiti, carcinogens in baby bottles….

        It’s good you feel like a chump. It means you’re moving toward anger and that’s healthy.

  11. Dan
    April 14, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I hate Facebook, MySpace, etc. I hate it all, I hate technology for the drama it has brought forth. Funny thing is, I’m an IT guy. A nice dumb guy that went around telling all his friends, female a like the ego boosts they needed like the rest of the morons only for a year or two down the road for the wife to find and wonder what the hell is up. Do yourselves all a favor and ditch all this narcistic drama filled trash.

  12. MGH
    April 14, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Dr Tara: Again…….soooo many thanks!!

    The Bottom Line Gang: Stay “Outa Sight, Outa Mind”…….get away!!

    Had a sign made in my office….”Flee the Borderline and Narcissistic Personality!”

    They are toxic, abusive and ultimately…….deadly to the psyche and soul!!

    They prey on others and finally….eat them alive!!

    I have worked my a@@ off getting away from an “Emotional Vampire” who
    is a raging NBPD…….”the worst of the worst”!! Soooo Scary!!

    (The Worst Combo of Insanity and Abuse……”N + B”)

    One MUST realize that “No Contact” means……nothing, nada,…no contact!!

    Who plans a vacation to Chernobyl and comes back alive?

    RUN!! Be afraid…..Very afraid!!

    Blessings to all You Beautiful “Nons”!!

    And God Bless, Dr Tara!! Keep it Up!!
    MGH

  13. kirk g
    April 14, 2010 at 2:29 am

    i was just thinking and feeling dr. tara, that god has led me to this site to aid in addition to family friends and support groups that have been helping me get over this 4 mo. nightmare (the first 2 were great).i tried to donate to your paypal link to my account, but it would revert back after i logged in my amount and info. should i just go straight to my account and do it from there? thank you much and i wish you great kharma for the work you have done for me and others. kirk.

  14. kirk g
    April 14, 2010 at 2:08 am

    strange. our last comments when parting, my ex kept saying that she had no one, no back up plan, plan b for sex with a guy after i was gone because she had to go thru the healing process. but as mine was at 43 yrs old and in many of the posts read here, these woman seem to too sexually charged, with little inhibitions and boundries for me to believe that to satisfy their low self esteem desires, they don’t usually go to long without a guy. it was a long pointless debate that i wasn’t going to believe. what are your thoughts panelists? give me all the imput you got.

    • ozymandias
      April 14, 2010 at 9:07 pm

      kirk g : what are your thoughts panelists? give me all the imput you got.

      Oh Kirk – this one is so easy. DO NOT BELIEVE A SINGLE WORD SHE SAYS.

      Right people?

      • MGH
        April 15, 2010 at 10:52 pm

        NOT A SINGLE WORD………THEIR WEB OF LINES IS MIND BOGGLING AND RELENTLESS!!

        THEY ARE QUICK AS A CAT ON THEIR FEET AND CAN LIE WITHOUT BLINKING AN EYE!!

        RUN, FLEE, VANISH FROM THEIR LIVES!!

        • finallywokeup
          May 3, 2010 at 1:41 am

          I third this one. Every single thing my ex-NPD said to justify her leaving; everything she pretended to be up until the divorce was final; every pose she struck for neighbors, the church, family, etc: ALL of it has been subsequently proven false. The level of dishonesty is shocking.

  15. kirk g
    April 14, 2010 at 1:14 am

    TO CLOSURE AT LAST—Because it’s not even that they act like ‘teenagers’ – that’s the excuse these women walk away with as they are women. BP/HP/NP women are nothing but the female version of the psychopath who escaped the radar while the male psychopaths became criminals/cult leaders etc. when you said act like teenagers, i was stunned! also the bitchy comment. these were words i used in our countless arguements in less than 6 mos. but i must say these women being the female version of psychopaths? this is stunning and chilling, and even though i don’t want to beleive it, i felt that way many times with my ex, but thought i was just being extreme. i know now that i wasn’t seeing and hearing things, thanks

  16. kirk g
    April 14, 2010 at 1:05 am

    i apologise tara, for using my ex’s real name and promise to never make that mistake again, you are right, they do google like crazy, when she ran me away crazy, i got on a mail order bride site in a few days and a few days later she found out! if they could invest better time and energy in being constructive instead of being destructive trying to get the goods on me, we could have built a foundation of a relationship, but then again, with these people…NOT!

    • shrink4men
      April 14, 2010 at 1:28 am

      I removed her name. She’s now referred to as “Lily.”

      Thanks,
      Dr Tara

    • Verbal
      April 14, 2010 at 4:30 pm

      Mail order brides? Dude….

      • Vantage1
        April 14, 2010 at 5:21 pm

        @Verbal: agree!

        @kirkg: after your dealing with an NPD/BPD, a mail order bride may look VERY appealing but (so does a live cobra!)…but unlike the NPD/BPD, you get “taken” for different reasons: MOBs usually go for $$$ and legalization and NPD/BPDs go for your soul and well-being…just avoid both and you’ll be MUCH happier!

  17. jp
    April 13, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    You had me until this:

    kirk g: F 6. SPIRITUAL – SAYS LITTLE OR NOTHING ABOUT GOD OR THE BIBLE.

    Not believing in a sky spirit invented thousands of years ago by frightened illiterate desert nomads is hardly a sign of mental illness.

    JP

    • shrink4men
      April 14, 2010 at 1:27 am

      Hi JP,

      Snicker. Snicker.

      Some of the most abusive jerks I’ve encountered consider themselves to be “good Christians” or devout in the faith they claim they practice. Therefore, I don’t think the amount of time people spend at church or temple or the number of times they quote holy scriptures is any indication of whether they’re a good person or not.

      I judge people by their actions; not their church attendance or lack thereof.

      Cheers,
      Dr T

      • PAWI
        April 14, 2010 at 2:07 am

        Amen to that! My ex-wife has claimed her pastor has forgiven her (for shacking up with another married man – while she was still married to me and exposing our kids to that) and tries to invoke God. She is just the freakin’ angel in all this, and I am the bad guy.

      • Verbal
        April 14, 2010 at 4:24 pm

        Historically, scoundrels have used religion to legitimize their nefarious agendas. Cluster B’s are no different. It doesn’t imply that they actually represent their purported belief system well.

      • Closure, At last
        April 14, 2010 at 6:10 pm

        Couldn’t agree more! Many preachers/pastors suffer from NPD themselves…I had the narc-experience with a young pastor who used to be a former star-athlete (he loved attention) right after I came out of my relation with my first atheist BPD boyfriend years back. I guess I had ‘target’ printed on my forehead. Since my esteem was down for a bit after the BP ex, the NPD priest fooled me for a while too. I was naturally looking for some uplifting of spirits, but his main intent was of course to secure funds – and his fave line was ‘God is using him to do such and such…’
        I’m not relegiouous, but before pulling myself up through art, the outdoors, philosophy & old-fashioned logic, reason and reading a few psychology books, I smelt a rat in his ‘brainwashing’ but thought perhaps he meant well.

        Boy – did he reveal his true colours when a French lawyer friend of mine confronted him with his ‘God-talk’ and money -making scams. He was pouring venomous threats and ‘God will punish you’ lines.
        I stopped contact with him and it’s been years – and wow – just 2 weeks back I got a sugary mail from him using ‘Godly’ lines, quoting scriptures and trying to hook me back to his church. (must be short of funds in the economy.)
        I wrote to him a brief reply part which I quote below:

        ”However, just wanted to let you that these days I make sure I don’t ever get fooled by men with NPD who cannot decipher genuine kindness in life. Kind of forgot what it was like… Thanks for the reminder!
        Sociopaths in short.
        Life is too short to waste time behind fakes, you know.

        And besides, science and intelligence answers much better what religion cannot. After all, the priest who needs the money of his church goers might claim that it is God holding the roof above, but in truth it’s the calculations of a competent structural engineer who makes sure the roof doesn’t fall over their heads. But if the priest were to acknowledge this truth and give credit to the engineer, could he fleece his flock? Guess not. Hence your smoke and mirrors, my dear.
        Ciao!”

        I had a laugh and am proud to announce have seen the last of his NPD ass. This liberation is what I call true enlightenment. An NP and BP’s ‘powers’ depend soley on how much power we bestow them with our own goodness. Without our attention and with our indifference they are insignificant pests who grow into monsters only if we allow and enable them to suck our blood, money, time and kindness!

        ”I judge people by their actions; not their church attendance or lack thereof.” – well said Dr. Tara.

        • Closure, At last
          April 14, 2010 at 6:12 pm

          Oops! sorry for the ‘religious’ typo! My spelling sounds more like the Bill Maher movie…

      • Recovering Alpha
        April 15, 2010 at 4:47 pm

        jp, Clearly & succinctly said! Nice. I’ve noticed (and since this is an anonymous blog I can speak freely) in general population I do NOT freely share my atheistic views; I’ve learned by experience many react VERY strongly to it. I also observe in other atheists that in general they are in a more thoughtful mature way MORE ethical, altruistic, and humanistic than devout worshipers.

        I always laugh watching “Volunteers” (John Candy) which shows the dangers of such zealot ideology; it was very easy to switch the extreme patriot to the other side. This is similar in what I perceive in religious fanatics; they might easily switch to the “dark-side” or vice-versa.

        As a case in point, didn’t the serial killer/canalbalist ‘Jeffry Dalmer’ make a conversion to Evangelical Christianity in prison. I — completely untrained in this area — have the OPINION that those people never change. Kind of scary. Doesn’t make all people who are worshipers bad though, but doesn’t automatically make those who worship regularly and invoke the name of a deity good either.

    • Verbal
      April 14, 2010 at 4:29 pm

      Though your swipe at Christianity is trite and dismissive, I agree with your sentiment regarding mental illness. (And technically speaking, Cluster B’s aren’t mentally ill, but merely disordered. Forgive me if I wax pedantic.)

      • Recovering Alpha
        April 16, 2010 at 10:32 pm

        At least two-thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity: idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religous or political ideas.

        – Aldous Huxley

  18. Henry
    April 13, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    FB interaction with my soon to be ex is something I have had to wean myself from.

    At first, it was “legitimate” snooping. I.E. trying to get evidence of adultery, bad habits, etc. for the divorce. But after I filed, any “new” evidence would not be “adultery” in a legal sense. But I kept looking.

    I finally realized, that this woman is no longer my wife except in a legal limbo sort of way, and I have no need or even a right to snoop.

    However, she is still on my friends list. We still live in the same house (if I move out I hurt my custody chances, she WON’T move out, as long as someone else [me] is paying the mortgage). If I defriend her now, it will just make a scene, and make my life heck. But I no longer (and haven’t for weeks) check out her profile (I used to do this daily if not several times daily).

    However, after reading this article, I blocked all request/notifications from her (which I ignore, but still see) and blocked her from seeing any comments from me.

    The day she moves out (I pray it is soon), I will defriend her AND list myself as single (currently no relationship status) and interested in dating!

  19. j
    April 13, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    I was i a short, but intense relationship with a BPD woman just up until a few months ago. I had known her from my past, and we reconnected via a social networking site. I wasnt sure on if a relationship was going to come out of reconnecting with this woman, but as the emails and chats progressed, we decided to meet up and thats when the relationship turned into something.

    In the beginning, all was great. The connectiveness i felt with her was awesome. ( i had known her in my earlier years) and we had grown up near eachother. The physical aspect of the relationship was great and it seemed i had found something special.

    The relationship progressed, even despite the long distance. She lived quite a ways away from me, but like i said, we just clicked and we were both willing to give it a shot.

    Things moved fast….really fast. Talking on the phone, emailing, texting…..she seemed to be so captivated by me and i gave her tons of affection and love. She told me of her broken engagement in the past, which made me want to care for her even more. As i did, and the closer we seemed to become, the more she talked about marriage….and this was only months into the relationship. I was taken back by this,but was so attracted to her and thought so much that, i too thought it was possible. She talked marriage very early on, and was sure she wanted me, more than anything else, that i made her feel like no other.

    Then things changed. She became moody, upset, short with me. Everything i did was wrong or annoying. Even sending her cards and flowers upset her. She did whatever she wanted, whether it be go out with her guy friends, making big decisions without including me or my thoughts. She became upset EVERY time i confronted her about my thoughts on things, or feelings about her and the relationship. She would yell, scream, accuse it was “all about you” and demand i back down, let her do what she needed, and she didnt need to have me included in it. I remember once she totally flipped out on me when i was trying to help her with a situation i knew was stressing her out. She totally flipped out on me for simply saying, ” i am worried about you and would like to help”.

    It seemed the more i cared, the more i did, she would be upset, turn everything i did for her into something i did to “get attention”. But then she would all of a sudden, be warm, caring and affectionate to my attention and affection. But not for long. She would come in and out of the realtionship, which was easy because of the distance. I continually thought i was doing something wrong, and began to pull back, and as soon as i did, she would become responsive, but only shortly.

    She complained about having to buy me a xmas gift, about having to do things i wanted to do, or did for her. My self esteem crashed….i didnt know what to think or do anymore, just went along hoping someday she would recognize me.

    I finally broke it off. I carried tremendous amounts of guilt and hurt for doing so. She constanly wanted to me to explain to her if she did anything to cause the break up. When i tried to explain to her my feelings and hurt, she always flipped out, mimimizing my feelings, concerns…….i felt horrible.

    I have spent time in counseling, trying to figure out what i did. I really wanted it to work out with her. I loved her and would have done anything for her. She knew this, but it didnt matter. She never once apoligized or was remorsefull for anything during or after it ended, which still made me feel like i had failed.

    I am still strongly attracted to her, and have tried no contact. I have suceeded with short lengths of time with this, but when i see she has gone back to my facebook page to look at my profile, it opens the wounds again. I finally am getting my self esteem back, but still wonder why if she despises me so much, why would she come to my profile and look?? I confronted her about this and she totally floored me my pleading i do not contact her, something i had not done in two months…as she was the victim, and i bothersome ex who keeps begging. I shut down my facebook page now and am try not to think about why she keeps checking up on me. I dont think she knew that i know she had been doing this, but everytime she did i misread it as her being “interested in me”.

    I know this was a unhealthy relationship, but why is it that it has such a grip on me? She totally threw me by the wayside shortly after i broke up and i think that hurt more than the pain of being totally minimized during the relationship. How is it that the pain after the end seems far more greater that the pain i experienced during the relationship??

    • uburoi
      April 13, 2010 at 5:05 pm

      J I can totally understand and empathize with where you are coming from. I was in a similar situation and felt similarly as you do now. Lots of similarities here. Her speaking of marriage way too soon: Mine did this in a matter of about five months was drunk asked me If I had any reservations about marrying her I told her the only reservation I had was that she had “a sharp tongue” in a calm and sincere tone. ie she could be verbally vicious she took this about as well as a three yr old would and began to cry and craete drama at the table stormed away from me and ignored me. All this mind you, in front of her co-workers who I met for the first time that day for her Master’s graduation celebration. Another similarity: “It seemed the more i cared, the more i did, she would be upset, turn everything i did for her into something i did to “get attention” yeah I got this too buddy. Once, we were at her parents plave and she stepped in some dog sh** barefooted on the porch, there were some of her family and friends on the porch with her. I went inside got some paper towel and a dish of warm water and soap. I came back out and washed her foot off there on the deck. I would have done this if the others were there or not, I figured hey I’m taking care of my girl and doing “the dirty work” later that night…Zing! she askes me in bed if I did that to show off in front of her family or make a big deal of it. I was seething with anger at the audacity of that question. Who in their right mind twists something nice you do for them into something negative or self serving? Answer? because they can and are not used to such treatment or do not know how to interpret something like that in a healthy way.

      In my opinion J, the pain you feel in the end is so much worse because she has diabolically shamed you for leaving, guilt tripped you for protecting yourself, and probably twisted this around as you being “selfish” for not wanting to further subject yourself to her manipulations and inconsistent moods and reactions. Has she ever said you were selfish when you did things for yourself like hang with friends, enjoy hobbies? You sir, must stop checking in on her or responding to her overtures it is her way to get at you and it will keep you stuck in shame and guilt
      I ssy this because I did the same damn thing with my exe’s blog. It’s hard to let go at first. You wonder what they are saying about you, you wonder how they are doing. Closing the FB account was a very wise decision YES SHE IS INTERESTED IN YOU…SHE IS INTERESTED IN IF SHE CAN CONTINUE TO YANK YOUR CHAIN AND/OR YOU ARE STILL ON HER TETHER… WHICH, IF YOU RESPOND YOU STILL ARE. GIVE HER NO ATTENTION AND YOU STARVE THE BEAST Plus you heal and focus on you which will eventually free you of the Harpie’s psychological strangelhold right now. Good luck J and know you are not alone in how you feel.

      • j
        April 14, 2010 at 1:49 am

        Sounds like our girls were very similiar. Yes i got the guilt treatment for doing things on my own. I wanted to get a dog….she became upset and turned it into me not including her in my decisions. we werent even living together, (thankfully) yet she made the decision to leave on voluntary assignment for four months, just cause she felt like it, without even asking how i felt. She chastized me for even questioning her decision. I couldnt make sense how someone whom wanted to spent time with me and loved me so could so readily check out. I was working on getting a job and moving closer to her, when she just decided to leave for four months. I was floored……but got yelled at, and i do mean yelled at for not unconditionally supporting everything and every decision she made. It was as if i, her boyfriend was and interference to her life, and was only something she included in her life and decisions when she was willing or ready. Yet i was on a short leash and wasnt to to anything without including her.

        It will take time, i know to let it all go. I still think of her often, and yes go back to the good times. But its getting easier to remember the bad ones now…

        Although it will always confuse me how she so readily dropped me and moved on, as if i was an object, a toy she was done playing with and moved on. how can one do that to someone they “loved”???

        • uburoi
          April 14, 2010 at 2:56 am

          That’s just it J…she never loved you.. do yourself a favor and get it out of you’re vocabulary. I had to come to that realization myself. That truth sucks but better to learn it now then after you marry the Harpie.

        • Mellaril
          April 14, 2010 at 12:02 pm

          “I was working on getting a job and moving closer to her, when she just decided to leave for four months.” – This is a potentially huge key. If you research Attachment Theory, a “push-pull” relationship is a characteristic of someone who has some form of insecure attachment. When you tried to advance the relationship by moving closer, you discrupted the balance. My ex-gf did almost exactly the same thing when I asked her to marry me. She took a “temporary” job in another city. It was the beginning of the end but it took two years for the end to finally come. As long as we maintained an “orbit of intimacy” of not being too close or too far away, we got along pretty well. However, the relationship plateaued.

          Marion Solomon writes, “When anxietyabout intimacy is too great, however, one partner will push away to return toa safe emotional threshold. If the pushing away leads to too much distance,the separation may generate great anxiety and fear that there will be no wayto reconnect, stimulating movement toward more loseness. In that way, the couple oscillates between the point at which they are far enough away to be relatively free of anxiety, and the point at which the fear of being swallowed up by the emotions of intimacy becomes intolerable. “Don’t get close, don’tgo away,” is the constant in the relationship, the balance point at which thepartners are doomed to remain stuck unless other forces intervene. – Short-Term Therapy for Long-Term Change

          In short, by trying to move closer you scared the crap out of her.

        • Alan T
          April 17, 2010 at 10:24 pm

          Something about your story compelled me to write. I was in an incredibly similar situation. My ex’s “sharp tongue” would absolutely tear me to pieces. When I complained about it she would tell me to get a backbone and “suck it up”. I am trying hard to realize that my ex was not a loving person. This is why they do the things they do. A woman who does or says the things they do in a relationship in a way that harms you is simply not a loving person. I kept telling her she was hurting me. She did nothing to change her behavior. It only got worse. Of course this side of them does not come out right away, otherwise you wouldn’t have stayed with them as long as you did. The same thing applied for me. A few weeks into moving in with me, her facade slipped and it was only a matter of time before the real her showed her true colors. Of course by then we have fallen in love with the sweet and caring side of her. These people are evil demons.

      • ozymandias
        April 14, 2010 at 8:49 pm

        “Who in their right mind twists something nice you do for them into something negative or self serving? Answer? because they can and are not used to such treatment or do not know how to interpret something like that in a healthy way.”

        I think it is simply that they believe that their reality is the way of the world. They think everyone thinks as they do. That is why they dont respond to therapy. They dont see anything wrong in the way they think. Therefore, the fact that they would never do anything good without a self serving ulterior motive means that nobody can do anything without a self serving ulterior motive. And they truly believe this.

        Just a thought. And a really sad one at that when you think about it.

        • Closure, at last
          April 15, 2010 at 4:08 pm

          Wow – Ozymandias, How well written and wise your observations are! This explains so much and stops a wondering I long had on how acts of genuine kindness were misinterpreted.
          As for their reality – a book on neuroscience I’m reading at the moment points more and more that their brains are truly ‘wired’ differently – more on the sociopathic scale – so they will NOT improve – they’re just not wired to improve and the best way is to walk away for self-preservation. The empathy & remorse function in their brains literally does not work. Compassion is useless therefore.

          I have moved on from sadness and compassion to pure simple acceptance of facts and avoidance. And to spend my energies figuring out healthy people and what lies beneath strength and positivism.

          Best wishes.

    • rhythm28
      April 13, 2010 at 5:10 pm

      j, your story sounds like mine and most other guys on here. How did you know she was checking your Facebook page? I think mine does too, but I have no proof. I know she stays in touch with mutual friends and calls me “restricted” on my phone.

      It’s such a grip on you because you want the person you first met. It’s a powerful drug. It’s what we all want out of life. Someone to love us unconditionally for who we are.

      The pain is there because there is something missing, her. Like I said, you are looking to go back to “that day”. We all are. Find other things to occupy your time and mind. There are other women out there, believe me.

    • MGH
      April 14, 2010 at 1:50 pm

      Great Post……a Classic Profile of the “Before, During and After” of dealing with a raging
      BPD……Man, Oh, Man, does that scenario sound familiar! The Pain at the end….in the aftermath
      hurts EVEN MORE than the abuse and pain DURING because we realize….THEY NEVER LOVED US!

      We were nothing but “NS”……..Narcissistic Supply…..for their EGO Needs…..not a person, not a
      loved one, not “the love of their lives”……just empty vacuous “NS”!! DEVASTATING!!

      Why……Because we TRULY LOVED THEM!!

      HOW DUMB DID WE ALL END UP FEELING IN THE AFTERMATH?

      Hold On…….Their is security in numbers for us “Nons” at this site and in life!!

      Blessings to You, Brother!!

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  1. April 13, 2010 at 11:17 pm

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