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No Contact Includes Not Keeping Tabs on your Ex Via Facebook, Twitter, Blogs or MySpace


For those of you who are following the No Contact Rule and have stopped calling, emailing, texting and staging accidental run-ins or have stopped responding to calls, emails, texts and are actively avoiding probable run-ins, congratulations! It’s difficult to remove the hooks of an abusive ex—especially if they’re personality disordered (e.g., narcissistic, borderline, histrionic or sociopathic).

If you’ve recently broken up with a crazy and/or abusive wife or girlfriend, the No Contact Rule is explained in the following articles:

Many readers have shared that while they’ve been able to go no contact and stop telephonic and electronic communication with their exes, they’re still visiting their exes’ Facebook, MySpace and other social network pages, blogs and Twitter feeds. I hate to break it to you, but visiting your ex’s various web pages—even if there’s no interaction—is a form of contact and is just as unhealthy as talking, emailing or texting with her. Stop it, stop it, stop it.

Visiting your ex’s web pages is worse than going through your old scrapbook, photos, letters or emails or mentally revisiting whatever happy moments or infrequent episodes of normalcy that you shared. These events are in the past. Actively remembering them is an unhealthy and masochistic form of nostalgia.

Keeping yourself abreast of her current activities online creates fresh pain for you every time you do it. The same holds true for well-intentioned news updates. If friends, colleagues or family members are carrying tales about her latest misadventures, respectfully and firmly tell them that you prefer not to hear about her anymore. The pain is supposed to stop once the relationship ends. Monitoring your ex’s ongoing shenanigans has several unhealthy and unproductive consequences.

1. Rubbing salt in your wounds. An abusive narcissistic, histrionic, borderline or unspecified crazy ex will use her online presence to:

  • Rub your nose in her brand new, “most amazing boyfriend ever!
  • Rub your nose in her “new found happiness and peace” that she’s never known before.
  • Trash you publicly.
  • Use your old photos, etc., as normalcy props.

Observing these four behaviors or some variation of them will only hurt you and/or make you crazy, so stop taking the bait.

2. Giving you a false sense of connection. When a relationship ends, most people need to go through a distancing period in order to recover from the loss. If your ex wasn’t abusive and your relationship was basically healthy, perhaps you can be friends some day in the future. A relationship with an abusive person is neither healthy nor normal. Therefore, there is no basis for a future friendship.

Perhaps she’ll keep you on a string for future ego boosts or to torment you if she’s bored, but that’s not friendship—it’s more of the same old same old that caused the relationship to unravel in the first place. Keeping tabs on her keeps you connected to her; even if it’s only morbid curiosity. Surely there’s a better way to spend your time that will help you feel good.

3. Giving you new information to ruminate upon. Again, there are better ways to spend your time. If you really want her out of your heart, mind and life, keeping abreast of her most recent train wrecks and distortions is not the way to do it.

4. Falling into the trap of analysis paralysis. This is another form of unproductive rumination. Why is she like this? Why couldn’t she be happy with me? What’s wrong with her? What could I have done differently? How could she move on so quickly with another guy? Why does she still have photos of us together on her profile? Why? Why? Why?

You can torture yourself endlessly with these questions. Over-analyzing her and the relationship is not the way forward. It won’t change anything. Furthermore, if trying to make meaning out of her crazy and meaningless behavior isn’t bringing you peace and closure, you need to knock it off.

There may very well be good reasons why your ex is the way she is. Ultimately, however, the reasons why she is abusive do not matter. What matters is how she treats the people she claims to love. Abuse is wrong no matter the reasons. There’s no excuse for abuse. It’s a slippery slope from finding excuses for her abusive behavior and making excuses and enabling her abusive behavior.

5. Keeping your anger and hurt alive. She’s not worth your sanity and your happiness. You have a right to be angry for the way she treated you. However, nursing your anger by finding new reasons to be upset is not productive. Feel your anger. Express it in healthy ways and then let it and her go.

6. Continuing to feed the beast it’s favorite treat: Attention. Even if you don’t respond to her online attention seeking behavior, you’re still giving her attention by visiting these sites.

Legitimate Reasons to Keep Social Media Surveillance. There are some legitimate reasons to keep tabs on your ex via the Internet. For example, if you’re gathering evidence for a divorce and/or custody case, if she is making physical threats and you need evidence for a restraining order or if you want to file a libel lawsuit for an online smear campaign/cyberstalking. If you aren’t compiling evidence for an impending court case, to initiate a protective order or because you’re concerned about your children’s welfare, there’s no reason to visit her profiles (including Internet dating profiles), blogs or follow her Tweets.

Outta Sight, Outta Mind.

Perhaps this isn’t true at first, but it’s the ultimate goal. Unless visiting her web pages makes you feel good—i.e., “I’m so glad I’m not with this wingnut anymore“—or you’re gathering evidence for legal purposes, there’s absolutely no reason to do so. Find a buddy to IM, call or hang out with when you feel tempted to click the mouse. Go for a run. Play a video game. Find something to distract yourself with until the urge passes and you feel strong again. Trust me, you’ll be glad you did.

Shrink4Men Coaching and Consultation Services:

Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.

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  1. Ace
    August 24, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Her next contact will be ‘Where did you get all that anger honey ? you need help, I’m prepared to go to therapy with you to help you’ yep she may not be put off that easily. You’re in her mind, as Dr T said in one of her articles, if she’d moved on you would not hear from her at all,

  2. kirk g
    August 23, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    can you believe it? after almost 6 mos. of my crazy psycho ex playing “your stalking me while i’m stalking you” and runnning thru guy after guy, she has the nerve, the audacity to e mail me wanting me to e mail her some pictures i took of her in the good ole days? isn’t this the same wacko that told me if i ever text or call her, she would call the cops for harassment charges to levied against me? i know the rules dr t, and my fellow panel members, but i had to e mail her back to tell her to burn in hell! and believe me, i am putting it nicely. i know she was not interested in any pictures. she did not want to take them and always gave me a hard time about taking pictures of her, even future wedding pictures! can you beleive that? true, she just was trying to get a response out of me to see if i was still ” mr nicey” stuck on stupid for her. i had to send a clear strong message that that wimp no longer exists and i would not be fooled again into taking her back. i promised friends family and myself not to answer any more contacts from her. after the harsh, cutting, mean words i said to her if she contacts me after all that, wow! she must be really and truly psycho. i have seen her at the rink a few times after that e mail, but she just looks at me with deer in the headlight eyes. weird, truly weird. i had no idea she was like this.

    • Alnico
      August 25, 2010 at 4:57 am

      I would be tempted to reply: “I deleted them all – since IMO we did not have any good ole days. Now, what’s your mailing address, so I can have my attorney send you a “No Contact Letter”.

  3. Ace
    August 15, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Hey Stefano, you’ve nothing to worry about, I had myself in a knot with this most recent breakup, it’s been 7 months, The overall relationship has been on and off over 5 years, she always links up with a man, always as it happens someone know to her and as a by the by to me also. The funny thing is I myself dated during some of these breakups, just dated mind you, where as she lived with a guy. But honestly I got on really fine, if I’m being 100% honest I certainly had more intimacy than I had in the relationship, both physical and emotional, given they were short term that says something. The other thing is that these ladies have also kept in touch, as in I get the odd mail, nothing more and no hidden agenda, but the point is we ask how each other are doing etc, it’s nice friendly (normal etc) two of these ladies are living in another country now. But my ex would be incapable of friendship, even without the no contact rule. She smiles perfectly in every photo but is quite stressed and angry most of the time of camera, actually as part of my not measuring up she would complain about ‘my smile’ apparently I don’t show my teeth ! Me being the people pleaser I even stupidly tried this to please her, I felt and looked like a dork, I think it lasted like 2 photos, not to be repeated.

    So far from not being loved Stefano I would suggest the biggest issue is your anthena will be well honed to red flags, but there are an awful lot of fine healthy normal females in your peer group out there. I found that I was expecting them to react like my ex, which is very unfair to them, you need to watch out for that, give them a chance, don’t get into auto response mode and start walking on eggshells etc.

    Good luck Stefano, get out there and give the ladies a chance :-) Share the love :-)

  4. Stefano
    August 15, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Many Thanks “The GirlInside”. I have a question of everyone on her…Is it normal to worry that you will not find someone to love again? I’m sorry if that sounds lame but having analysed why I went for coffee I guess one of the main things was this feeling that getting back into the dating game fills me with dread and fear.

    I guess even though it was a roughride with my Ex and her violent outbursts but I miss the feeling of being part of esomething. Sure it’s great to be able to do what you want when you want and be a single guy but I have this nagging deep in the pit of my stomach that is born of her abuse and her favourite saying “nobody will love and understand you like I do Stefano, you are not easy to get along with you know.”

    I just thought I would ask if it is normal to feel like I do and it is even worse when you are a sensitive guy and take things to heart.

  5. August 15, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Stefano:

    Don’t be too hard on yourself; maybe you needed that one last confirmation of why you left / kicked her out, and why things could never work between you.

    I fell for that once with a former BF who had cheated on me numerous times, and was controlling,etc…you know the drill. I agreed to meet him years after we split…and after sitting with him, trying to have some sort of intelligent conversation and finally having to make him leave at 1:00a.m. (I suspected he was waiting for invitation to the BR), remember thinking, “Okay. I now remember why we are not together, nor ever could be.” He hadn’t changed a bit.

    Chalk it up to experience and a lesson well-learned.

  6. Stefano
    August 14, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Hi everyone. I have a confession…I broke the no contact rule and was weak. I went for coffee with her because she begged me to say goodbye properly.
    I sat there whilst she prattled on and on and after about an hour when she got to the part “I would come back but you would have to put the house in joint names then you can’t throw me out when you want”…I stood up and replied “if you maybe learned how a rational, normal human being behaves then I wouldn’t have asked you to leave my house”…She simpy stared at me with her mouth open and I could see the rage building so I left, rather quickly.

    I know, I know I am a doofus for even going near but thats the point we are just too nice for our own good. Well it was good to say a part of what I had wanted to say. Since then I have changed my mobile number, home number and do not open anything that comes through my letterbox that I figure is one of her rambling huge letters.

    Truth is I wouldn’t have her back if she came with a winning lottery ticket and I just don’t know why she thought I was interested. Maybe because I turned up for coffee gave a green light but to be almost moving herself back in after a coffee really does show the messed mind she has.

    Anyway I am back on the wagon and more determined than ever. It’s 2 months now and I figure one relapse out of curiosity and nothing else is not too bad.

    • Aapeli
      August 25, 2010 at 12:12 am

      Hey, I have had big arguments with my gf one day and then the next day she smiles and starts going through a catalogue of homes for sale!

      LIKE I AM GOING TO BUY A HOUSE TOGETHER WITH HER AFTER SHE JUST YESTERDAY ONCE AGAIN REMINDED ME OF WHAT A CRAZY PERSON SHE IS!!!

      She did that to me a few times in the Spring this year and eventually I told her directly with very clear words that she can’t sensibly expect me to start talking about buying a house or anything like that after the day she told me I am a totally worthless piece of shit and can do nothing right and that we are going to break up very soon.

      Well, she cried a bit when I told her that and tried to explain that she was just trying to “try to improve things”. So, one day she tells me I am a worthless piece of shit and that we are going to break up, then the next day she is “improving things” by showing houses for sale to me. Erm, not exactly the kind of a subject I want to talk about with her right after she has totally rejected me and told me I am worth nothing.

      This is something she seems to repeat every once in a while and every time I feel like telling her to shut the hell up because she is being so incredibly stupid that I can’t believe it.

      The next day after a big argument I would expect her to *apologise* first to me! And not talk about buying a house, like there was no argument at all.

  7. kirk g
    July 13, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    i appreciate your post michael marc and your reply dr t. it’s exactly what i’m doing with my bpd ex of 4 mos. she does not call or text, but if she sees me at my local skating hangout, she breaks and take off like i’m stalking her. weird! then when she sees me the next week, it’s as if she’s stalking me! my good friends and family support group have all their opinions but like i told them, i only take the opinions of this site because you guys altogether have hundreds if not thousands of years in experience in dealing with these demonic entities that the average laymen do not. suffice it to say, they have no clue because they keep coming up with natural, normal conclusions and explanations for unnatural, abnormal people. thank god for this site, i would hate to think…

  8. Jason
    July 13, 2010 at 4:02 am

    Ok my divorce is final with my BPD/narcissist. I’ve been laying out my boundaries with her and holding her to them. I figure this is for a good laugh, so little Miss Nothing’s my fault had the balls to text me this morning after I layed out my boundaries of…”so I take it that you don’t want to date me or see me?” You just divorced me…now you wanna date? And how does the part of I hate you, do you not get? She’s a winner!

  9. michael marc
    July 13, 2010 at 12:18 am

    2 engagements and 1 stint in jail from my narc ex fiancee. She is crazy. She wants to get married, she gets the ring she wants, then a week later we get engaged, a week later from that she says maybe I dont love you anymore……
    We broke after 6 months, she said she needed space and time. found out when we got back together the second time she went back to an ex. she put me in jail for phone harrasement which wasnt true we talked the day before she went to the police telling me she loved me. she put me in jail bc I told her the truth about her. it was punishment. I dont talk to her for 2 months. She wanted to meet, I never met her. THen again 2 months later she facebooks me and i give in….. She says she misses me and loves me and wants to fix us. She said she hasnt seen anyone or done anything with anyone. I give it a try. we go see therapy, things are great as i thought.. she wants to get engaged, said she was set on me forever. we get engage, 1 week later i dont want this or you. she threaten to put me in jail again if i talk to her.

    will she ever leave me a lone?

    • shrink4men
      July 13, 2010 at 1:30 am

      She will keep tormenting you for as long as you let her. Next time she calls; don’t answer. Don’t reply to her emails/texts. If you see her approaching you on the street; walk in the other direction. If she shows up on your doorstep or office; call the police.

      Dr Tara

      • michael marcelissen
        July 14, 2010 at 4:51 am

        when she said your dead to me is she done?

      • michael marcelissen
        July 18, 2010 at 10:00 pm

        she hasnt contacted me in 11 days… do you think its over?

        • Ace
          July 18, 2010 at 11:41 pm

          11 days ! nope, I’ve had periods of up to 7 months during which she actually lived with a guy and she came back, off at the moment and looks final, but you never can tell

          • michael marcelissen
            July 19, 2010 at 1:47 am

            yea the first time was 2 months no contact…. then now again

          • michael marcelissen
            July 19, 2010 at 1:52 am

            Ace: i dont understand these women.

            • August 15, 2010 at 1:44 pm

              I found it was a waste of my mental energy trying to ‘understand’ someone who is irrational. Better to use that space in your head for more constructive thoughts. Like, Why DID the chicken cross the road? you, know, stuff like that.

          • michael marcelissen
            July 19, 2010 at 1:58 am

            what do you do ace?

            • jp
              July 19, 2010 at 5:19 am

              Stay strong with your No Contact–it works–and thank god every day you don’t have children with her.

  10. kirk g
    June 10, 2010 at 5:38 am

    can i get some creative comments here? for example, what if i talked to the guy just casually, not saying anything about her. that would drive her crazy since she told me that after the breakup, i am not to say anything about the bad things she did to me. she would assume i was doing that and probably mess things up for her and her victim -to-be because he guilty actions would tip him off! she is constantly after 4 mos asking people what i’m saying about her. they hate the truth exposed. they want it hidden in plain sight so they can devour the next victim right in front of you.these bpd’s are not smart, they are just clever fools. they get away with what the get away with because we let them. i say it’s time to put on the breaks. what’s the worse that can happen? please dr t, and panel, i need your comments on this.

  11. kirk g
    June 10, 2010 at 5:30 am

    what if my ex had aids that i found out about too late. should i just stand by the way side as she gets ready to spread it to another victim? no! i could not do that in good concsience. but it seems we live in a society that looks more at the physical damage more than mental and emotional which can be much more devastating!! so we say let her go on to the next victim without even so much as a warning and just thank god we made it out alive. again, can we as men do that in good conscience, or am i missing something here? when i talk to family and friends, they say stay out of it. they say the guy may not listen anyway and may run back and tell her. now your the bad guy startin’ drama! they say if was a good friend or somebody you know, it would be different. i would hate to see my worse enemy go thru what i went thru and i’m sure the panel agrees. sure, i got out in less that 6 mos., and 2 where good, but he may not be that lucky. a nice guy like him could get caught up for a few years and lose his mental, emotional, financial mind, maybe even physical. i would feel bad if i did not try to prevent that. i knew i was headed that way. dr. t, panel, let us challenge ourselves in preventing the next victim instead of emoting about the latest.

  12. kirk g
    June 10, 2010 at 5:02 am

    something troubles me. i saw my ex bpd at the rink tonight with her latest victim to be. it bothered me not in the sense she is with someone else, no i’m past that stage and have seen her with street wise, bad boy types.thats not the kind of guy she wants. she wants the meek, humble, nerdy, nice guy to control and brainwash that she thought i was at first. i am a nice guy, don’t get me wrong, but i’m a living thugish, ruggish bone when you cross the line. this new guy, strikes me as her other victims before me that she chases after. so much so that when i saw him, i started to ask did he know my ex! my ex walks in ten minutes later and they start hugging! he just looked the part like the other guys. they are devilish masters at this. my issue is this dr t…. in past comments on this site the mentality is to get out, stay out and let the beast go on to devour a another innocent helpless victim. i had a problem with that because it was like letting the serial rapist or child molester go on to maim more victims as long as we survived. can we as men do that in good conscience? all that would mean is that your site will grow and so would your business, but what about “and once of prevention…? i realize emotional and mental terrorism is not a illegal crime, but it can be just as damaging as the physical. if we see a crime about to be commited, should we “turn the other cheek?” dr t and panel, please respond

  13. kirk g
    May 31, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    also, happy memorial day to you dr. t, and to all of you on this blog post.

  14. kirk g
    May 29, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    thank you mr E, for your deep comment. i could not agree more. you are right, sam. why do i have to talk to her at all? at the adult skating rink where we run into each other, i’ve got half a dozen ladies that i skate and chat with while she stares at me without even trying to hide it. as far as “not letting go”, i’m pass that stage, i just wrestle with the thought of her getting rid of one victim and going to the next one. it’s what i call the “devil mentality” do whatever the hell you want with people, and when you get through with them, simply just dump the body and move on to the next one, and by the way, don’t punish me or expose me so i can have a free and fertile enviornment to repeat the process! i really belive in punishment and exposure for these monsters

    • chester
      May 30, 2010 at 2:46 pm

      With over 11 years married and 6 more “still together”….with 30 breakups and reconciliations….now completely out…I have a world of knowledge. The ONLY thing that has worked is NO CONTACT and no discernable emotion of any kind on those chance meetings. Whether at the rink or a bar or Walmart….you need to show nothing. Complete poker face…no words…zilch. Detached and confident. Game over. There is no practice life. This is ALL you get. Be that dude in those Dos XX beer commercials…live as large as you can and to hell with her bull*&^$.

      • jp
        May 30, 2010 at 3:19 pm

        Chester,

        nice post.

        JP

      • Lighthouse
        May 30, 2010 at 7:43 pm

        While you are under no obligation to interact, if you are still so disgusted that you are unwillling to show emotions then you appear to be going for physical disengagement rather than emotional detachment.

        Emotional detachment is forming no expectations of her behavior so you have the ability to ask for what you want (despite her potentially explosive reactions) and response reasonably to her requests (despite her phrasing them like demands for entitlement). It is indifference to the result while maintaining adherence to your moral code for your behavior.

        While she can try her best to take your time, effort, stuff, commitments or money by escalating her behavior, only you can give her those things or your peace of mind.

        For the sake of your emotional health, strive for detachment rather than disengagement.

        Lighthouse.

      • kirk g
        May 31, 2010 at 5:56 pm

        “Whether at the rink or a bar or Walmart….you need to show nothing. Complete poker face…no words…zilch. Detached and confident. Game over.” thanks for that advice chester. i followed it to the letter last nite at the rink and my friends were coming up to me, ” hey she’s just starin at you like crazy! i was like oh yeah? i’m busy with these other honies” but they say, they are competitors, so she starts going after the sex on my mind losers guys in the rink to skate with. how immature for a woman of 44. it’s as if to risk hurting herself in order to hurt me. yeah right. it reminds me of a old chinese story called ” the scorpion and the turtle” for those of you who have not heard it, it goes like this: a turtle is getting ready to cross a river when a scorpion comes up and asks,” mr. turtle, can you give me a ride on your back as you cross the river? we scorpions can’t swim.” mr turtle replies, “no! for you will most certainly strike me with your stinger! where is the logic in that? would we not both drown in the river?” said the scorpion. mr turtle, agreeing with the logic says, “hop on!” halfway across the scorpion suddenly strikes mr. turtle with a deadly sting in the neck. arrghh! screams the turtle. “you said there was no logic in stinging me, now we both will die! why?” the scorpion simply and calmly replies, “it has nothing to do with logic. i’m a scorpion. that’s what i do. it’s my nature.” says the scorpion as they both slowly drown. so it is with these bpd types. they will do as much harm to themselves as to you with no remorse whatsoever. it’s just their “nature”. until i met and got rid of my “scorpion”, i never thought in my wildest dreams that such a constructive/destructive personality existed. it is indeed chilling and spooky.

  15. Ace
    May 29, 2010 at 9:00 am

    If I’m blocked on her facebook, with no contact, off for months ! Why does she have serious amounts of photos of us on her profile ? Like many others I’ve had an on off relationship over 5 yrs, often off for over 6 months

  16. kirk g
    May 28, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    i have a question. my ex bpd seems ready to switch from her imaginary me stalking her to being ready to speak again. my friends and fam say i should be nice and reply if she says hi. my gut feeling like i know her, i want to ignore her like she does not exist. when i’ve done that before she seems to respect me more if i treat her like crap. if i try to play mr nice guy, i finish last. what are you’re thoughts everyone?

    • Mr. E
      May 28, 2010 at 10:54 pm

      Your friends and family, sorry to say, don’t know what they’re talking about. They just don’t KNOW what the deal is with these folks.

      Yes, she probably will respect you if you treat her like crap. It’s one of the awful paradoxes we have to deal with.

      Do not reply if she starts being nice. Or if she’s rotten. NO CONTACT. Any contact means you finish last, because she got HER need filled.

    • sam
      May 29, 2010 at 1:50 am

      Who cares if she respects you? Her opinion of you should not affect your opinion of you. Finish last? Dude, isn’t the game over already? I went through a time where I based my reactions to her on what she would think of my acting that way. That’s called “not letting go”. Assuming you don’t have kids, why do you have to talk to her at all? There are like a zillion people in the world. Count your blessings, learn from your mistake, and move the hell on.

  17. DoneWithCrazy
    May 27, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    I used to post here for a while under the name “StillRecovering”, but I feel I’ve moved beyond that, hence the name change.

    I was briefly married (8 months) to a woman with NPD, and it was a nightmare. Of course, the nightmare started well before the marriage, around the time we got engaged, but I felt trapped and didn’t see any way out of marrying her at the time.

    That was almost two years ago. We split in May of last year, and the divorce was finalized in October. I was relieved that the horror was over, but the unexpected emotions that resulted were overwhelming. With a lot of therapy and support from family and friends, I made it through, and realized what a destructive person she really was. I am now in an amazing relationship with a woman that loves and respects me. I’ve never experienced anything like it before, and to be honest, it was scary in the beginning. Strange as it is to say, I didn’t know how to handle being treated so well, but I have since adjusted.

    This brings me to online/social networking part of the story. My ex was/is addicted to the website theknot.com, and its sister site, thenest.com. It was all she was interested in doing. She posted during the day at work, and most of the night when she got home. As a result, we had little to no communication. I tried everything I could think of to get her head back in the marriage: buying her gifts, taking her on trips, and being as caring and attentive as I possibly could. I was even stupid enough to be the primary signer on a car she wanted (that I’m now stuck with), only one month before we split. As for most of the men here, it was a futile effort. Catering to her wants was like feeding a monster. The more attention she got, the more she craved. She was never, ever satisfied.

    During our divorce proceedings, I frequently visited bulletin boards on both theknot.com and thenest.com to gather information for my divorce case. I strongly suspected her of cheating, and I found evidence of it on a number of her posts. Not long after we split, she was going on these boards detailing her “new and exciting” sex life, which I wasn’t thrilled to know about, but unfortunately had to take note of as evidence for the divorce, just in case she really wanted to make things ugly.

    A few weeks ago, I decided to just take a peak at the boards once again, wondering if she was still on. She is, and as I suspected, going on and on about her “new love.” She says “I’ve never loved or respected someone as much as I do him. He’s such a great man!” She said the same thing about me when we were first dating, and she probably said it about the guy before that. The interesting thing is that now I can read these posts without getting upset like I used to. I now read them with pity, because I see the storm brewing, and I wish I could warn the new guy what he’s in for, even though no one bothered to warn me. I remembered that lovey-dovey period that lasted right up until my ex and I got engaged, and then it was as if someone threw a switch. Everything she mentions in her posts is like a carbon copy of what we went through in the beginning of our relationship.

    At first I thought, “wow, maybe she really did change that fast, maybe she did really find the love of her life,” but it’s the random, little comments she makes that reveal her true self, and prove that she is still the same. She’s ready and poised to take down another good, decent guy. She still goes on posting comments about me, saying I was “verbally abusive” and “emotionally unstable”. Of course it was the other way around, but she would never admit to that. She even made a comment on some relationship advice someone on the board gave, about how it’s best to pick your fights and be willing to compromise once in a while. Her response was, “to me, being right and being happy are one in the same.” Same old crazy woman, different guy. I didn’t believe it at first, although so many people told me so, but these women really don’t change. It’s the same game over, and over, and over again. They are shallow, empty shells, and they must find someone to treat them like a princess, while at the same time act like a bulls-eye that they can project all of their anger and fears onto.

    Sorry for the long post, but just thought I’d share some of my journey. I also wanted to thank Dr. Tara and say what an amazing help she was to me. There were many times I thought I wasn’t going to get through, but reading these articles was an immense help. The fact is, these women will continue trying to ruin other people’s lives, I’m just thankful this one didn’t manage to ruin mine.

  18. dazed
    May 27, 2010 at 1:43 am

    Kari :

    kirk g :within weeks we knew we had something special in love and talked marriage….i introduced her to mom, friends, family, i got of rid of the phone numbers, the porn collection, the going out with friends, whatever she asked so we can focus on the relationship. in summary, Lily did not love kirk as family friends and strangers warned. she loved what kirk could do for her and make her feel. this was her twisted version of love. she preys on men who are the opposite of her, stable, strong, with money… she enters into a relationship to take, not give, to hurt, not heal, to control, not work with the man as a partner.

    Hi Kirk:
    Just wanted to point out a few things you said that have RED FLAG on them (for the rest of us–yup, me included–to watch out for…“Within a few weeks” you spoke of marriage…usually not a good sign…they want to “catch” you before you have a chance to get to know their true nature. Then you feel committed, and like the bad guy for wanting out (but, I’m already committed.) Bad idea. I learned that one the hard way.
    You said you did “whatever she asked” –not to presume, but that seems as though those things you were doing were not necessarily because you wanted to, but were requests (demands) made by her…when one person is making all the demands in the relationship, and you feel like you HAVE to do anything to MAKE / KEEP them happy, that’s a RED FLAG!!! If you can’t be yourself and allow the relationship to move along naturally, also red flag.
    Another interesting thing, they all seem to come on with sex like porn queens…sorry, men, but you do tend to fall for that. Here’s what I’d like my nephews to be aware of: easy / slutty women = emotionally disturbed women…who will (not might) drag you through the mud make your life HELL. Nothing wrong with having healthy desires, but when she’s wearing you out every night (I know, I know, it’s hard to resist), please, please, please remember the above formula!!
    “Lily did not love Kirk…she loved what Kirk could do for her…” YUP!! They have an image of “husband” or in my case “wife” and you must comply with that image. It’s not YOU they want; it’s that block of stone they intend to mold into their image of ‘perfection.’ If someone says “I love you for doing that” or “I Love you because you make me feel…” Probably not a good sign.
    “As friends and family warned…” no matter how dysfunctional a background you may come from, when all your friends and family are saying the same thing…you might reconsider your commitment to your potential spouse. This is a difficult one, especially if you come from a family who hasn’t always been supportive or if your parent(s) have objected to pretty much everyone before.
    I don’t mean to insult you in any way, Kirk (i.e. shoulda known better)…that’s not the message I mean to send…it’s just…I recognize so much of it from my experience, and also have seen it in others’ relationships.
    My parents wanted me to marry a certain external ‘type’ (i.e. a farmer, someone who could sing, etc.) but I wished they would have asked me: “How does [potential spouse] treat you?” and “How do you feel when you are around [potential spouse]?” Here’s what I will ask my girls; “How do you feel and think about YOURSELF when / after you’ve been around [potential spouse]?”
    Some things to consider when contemplating future relationships. Best of Luck and God Bless,Kari</blockq

    I can totally relate to what you are talking about red flags. When I met my wife, who I now see is displaying BPD/NPD traits (undiagnosed but my therapist thinks she is based upon our therapy sessions) we were talking about getting married within 3 weeks of our first date and 6 weeks of meeting. I thought that it was love at first sight and felt so comfortable with her from the moment I met her. I took my time getting to know her, or so I thought, 3 weeks of daily interaction and conversations before asking her out on the first date. My first indication should have been all the other men who had expressed an interest in her, as she was the new person at work, but she was the one telling me about all the guys who were asking her out on dates. I bought her the ring within a month and we were married in 6 months of meeting. About a month before we got married I remember thinking that I am making a mistake but feeling like I didn’t want to break her heart and that maybe I was just having normal jitters. After all, we had the most amazing love life or should I say “sex life”, I now see how she used that to suck me in to get me committed and once she had me my life would never be the same. She wore me out 2-3 times a day most days and then after the vows it was 2-3 times per month. She had every excuse under the sun as to why we couldn’t have the same “sex life” and I was left thinking that if I only did this better or that more or changed this about me that she would love me again and we would have ‘sex’ again.

    The first time I felt that she was a little off was when she asked me to open a joint checking account with her after just a few days of being engaged. I refused to open the account with her because I felt it was unnecessary. I lived in my own apartment and she lived at home still, we had no joint bills together so I felt there was no point. She got so mad that she stormed out of my apartment and disappeared for the rest of the day. I felt so bad that I went looking for her and couldn’t find her at home (no cell phones back then). She showed up at work that evening but gave me the cold shoulder until I apologized and asked if we could talk it over. She never apologized for her childish behavior and made it all my fault. She rationalized it all out to make it all my fault and I fell for it because it “made sense” which is what they do to us.

    There is no question that she didn’t love me but loved what I could do for her. I was about to graduate from college as a doctor when I met her and she saw $$$ signs. Several of my friends warned me that they felt she was a gold digger and I defended her. It wasn’t until after she filed for divorce that I found out that even one of her own family members had warned one of my family members that she was a gold digger. It was to late she had already systematically brainwashed me and figure out how to control me and manipulate me.

    I have done lots of reading on this topic, both on this site as well as others and this was always my biggest question. Do they ever have that moment of clarity that they realize that they are hurting you and abusing you. I think the answer to that is that they don’t see themselves as abusing you but they may see that they are hurting you. My wife after 22 years of marriage told me these things:
    1. that she was a bad wife and that she knew that I could probably find someone who could love me better and the way I deserved to be loved.
    2. that she was the problem and that she was like a bottle of booze to the alcoholic, that as long as she was around me daily I would forever take a drink and would never be healthy.
    3. that she needed to true to herself and live her own life free of being controlled and manipulated by me.
    4. she is the one who wanted the divorce and yet she had always had an issue with me abandoning her and she had severe trust issues.
    5. she admitted to feeling rejected and abandoned by her parents as a child and yet she was willing to do the same thing to our children.

    These are just a few of the bigger points and the list is at least 20 long. Yet once she left she continued to use emotional blackmail and manipulation to try and get what she wanted out of the divorce. Mainly she wanted me to agree to take care of her for the rest of her life and she used “sex” and other things to manipulate and control me. It has been 3 months since she lest and filed for divorce and I have found that having no personal contact and limited text and email contact is what works best. This has allowed me to heal and to be able to detach from her and move forward with my life. If I could run and hide and never have to deal with her again I would, but sharing 3 kids prevents me from doing that. On occasion I find myself getting sucked back in or feeling sorry for her and it only serves to reinforce why I need her out of my life. Just yesterday I closed an email with one of my classic compliments about her physical transformation. She has lost a lot of weight recently and she had sent some pictures of herself to the kids via email, which I saw. I complimented her on how good she looked and how she had worked to achieve her goal. She simply thanked me and then stated “yeah I don’t think that the people in my life know how far I have come in the last 3 years”. The ironic thing and the classic narcissist reaction was for her to not once make any comment about my own physical transformation. In the 3 months since she left and moved 3 hours away to take a job I have lost nearly 80 pounds and not once has she ever complimented me for my hard work or how good I look. Now I know that this sounds like I am the narcissist, but I tell you this for a reason. In our entire marriage she always told me that I was never allowed to look better than her, be smaller than her or weigh less than her. I may not weigh less but I now look better than she does and I know that it is killing her. She actually told me 6 months ago that I was not allowed to weigh myself at home any more because she was mad that I could lose weight so easily and she had to work 10x harder for every pound she lost.

    For those of you how are here reading and trying to find out if you are the one who has a problem…read, read and re-read and take it all to heart. Go to your friends and especially go and talk to old friends who your wife/gf may have pushed away and ask them their opinion. Since my wife filed for divorce and left I have been amazed at the number of people who have come forward to tell me their stories. They all have the same story that they wished that they could have come to me before but they knew how much I loved her and that I would have dismissed them. It has only been now that I have had time and space to evaluate the relationship that I can see the “truth”. I know that for the first 2 months I thought that I was the one who had a problem and needed to be in therapy. This always happened after I had had a conversation with her about anything, she turned every conversation to the point that she had me doubting my own sanity. Don’t allow yourself to get sucked into their world where they know how to control and manipulate

  19. kirk g
    May 20, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    chester “Kirk g…I wrestle with “payback” in my mind all the time. But, what I always realize..is that she thrives on drama/attention-good or bad. I would just give her a chance to run around playing the victim. My retaliation would give her a Narcissistic “feeding” It would show that I am suffering, and so I lash out. Bingo! She wins! Again. ” i just wanted to respond to how true your comment is. it’s been months and i still struggle feeling she got away with murder scot free. not really though, as she avoids the same skating sessions. it seems not enough. i realize like you say they respond to revenge different than the normal person. they probably enjoy it except for when you expose their ways which seems to bother them more than a dagger in the heart which is the only way i would attack. but alas, in the end, like you say its not worth it. success is the best revenge

    • sam
      May 21, 2010 at 3:35 pm

      She isn’t going to one day realize what a terrible person she’s been. You are not going to have “closure”. She’s not going to “get hers”. She may be perfectly happy jumping from guy to guy and “falling in love”. This is your (my) issue. Her state of mind, perceived state of mind, or what you hear her state of mind is cannot be a determining factor in your state of mind. I’m hoping this will come with “detachment”.

      • kirk g
        May 22, 2010 at 4:40 am

        thank you for your deep comment sam. it was enough to give me closure from this warped, twisted, mindset, mindstate of this…person.

  20. kirk g
    May 4, 2010 at 2:18 am

    thank you chester for your comment. it was well received. i am indeed living a more sucessfull and happy life. i guess as a man sometimes anger comes up within for letting someone do you this way and you allowing it. i must confess though, that my greatest anger and guilt comes from( i can’t believe im confessing this) seeing her run a previous ex away that i knew from the rink that she said at the time was stalking her. i was on her side because i was a long time friend and wanted to take it further. when we broke up, it was like its my turn to leave. i was like hell no! you get out! since then i have been searching high and low for him to apologize and tell him that i was ashamed to have had a part in all this. what went around came around for me, but it will for her too. my thing is this… do they ever see it? any sense of percentage of guilt? are they that inhumane? thanks again, chester

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