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Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
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Article Suggestion
Doc,
Your posts and the responses on the site thus far seem to be about 90% or more about understanding the crazy women readers are dealing with.
I’d love to see an article or more devoted to discussing the issues men have that made them vulnerable to these women in the first place.
For example, I’ve noticed among the mens’ responses a couple of recurring themes. I’m sure there are others:
1. Little to no confidence in one’s own reality.
2. The need to be seen as a “good guy” no matter what the cost.
Thanks,
JP
This is a great suggestion, JP. I have posted a few articles re: this topic, but they don’t seem to get as much traction, but I’ll give it another whirl.
I see “trying to understand” as one of the first stages of breaking free, however, a lot of people get stuck here. At some point a man’s focus needs to switch rails and consider, “why did I put up with this, what did I get out of it and why aren’t I letting go?”
I will add it to my list.
Thanks for the feedback!
Cheers,
Dr T
Great blog, Doc. The best resource on the web, by far — and I’ve checked out a bazillion different sites over the past few months.
My BPDebacle was such an annihilating train wreck that I ought to be ashamed to post it here. But what the hell.
I don’t consider myself a victim. My grim tale begins with the inexcusable decision to commit adultery. (We both were married; as if BPD relationships aren’t complicated enough already!) I was, however, absolutely blindsided by an insidious phenomenon that was beyond my control and understanding. I had no idea what I was dealing with. I had so totally lost my bearings that I didn’t even realize how horrifically dysfunctional our relationship was until well after we broke up.
Long story short: I was crazy about the girl. Then I was just crazy.
I’ll call her Regan, not because she was possessed but because I was. That’s what it felt like, at least. It took 3+ years after she dumped me to even begin to truly get over her. I couldn’t drink, block, f*ck or pray her out of my head. When I finally saw a therapist in Jan., I told her, “I think I need an exorcism.” And I wasn’t kidding.
It was a workplace affair. From meeting to mating, it took 5 months for us to take the plunge. She wanted to have sex on our first date, but she was very drunk and I was pretty drunk, and I wasn’t going to take that step on those sloppy terms. (I really, really liked the girl. This was not a penis-led expedition.) We met the next night at a hotel. We didn’t have sex. We experienced consummation. (Or so it felt to me.) I was completely, happily hooked after that.
And why not? She was sweet, smart, sexy, stylish, sensitive and self-effacing. She was vulnerable without being abjectly needy. And she thought I’d hung the moon.
Her backstory was tumultuous and brave. Given up for adoption at birth. Abandoned (along with 3 adopted siblings) by her adoptive father at age 6. She developed an eating disorder in 8th grade that nearly killed her in college. She indicated that she’d had a spell where she’d sowed some wild oats. This was no plaster saint. I liked that. My background ain’t Beaver Cleaver either.
About six weeks into the affair (which lasted 18 mos.), after a session of typically pyrotechnic coupling, Regan told me that she had been gang-raped in college by 7 members of the soccer team. She was a first semester freshman. Good god. That kind of story will spin a fella’s head — and turn his stomach — for sure. I felt terrible for her; who wouldn’t? It endeared her to me all the more.
The next day at work, I sent her an e-mail that included a brief, benign compliment of a colleague’s work — an overweight, modestly talented woman that Regan seemed to like. That was Vesuvius’ first eruption.
It was (I thought) semi-understandable. No. 1, you never know what’s gonna pull someone’s jealousy trigger. No. 2, I could hardly blame her for being extra-sensitive that day, mere hours after divulging such a tale. Yet I still knew that her apocalyptic response was way out of proportion. She threatened to end the affair that day, etc., etc. You folks know the routine. It upset the hell out of me. I’d never felt that disturbed in my life.
The dust settled, things got back to “normal” and I went to Lexis-Nexis to look up newspaper stories regarding a 19xx gang rape at a midwestern college. It was pretty much as she said. Pretty much.
No charges were filed, and there was a great deal of controversy about that. The D.A. seemed genuinely regretful when he called it a very unfortunate incident of which all parties should be ashamed .. but that he found nothing to indicate that it was NOT consensual sex.
Hmmmm. Knowing the long history of men getting away with rape — and knowing all too well how jocks band together under fire — I still had no reason not to accept Regan’s version of events. For one thing, she said somebody slipped her a mickey — and maybe they did. And she did admit to police that she was very drunk, and that it began by asking two of the boys to walk her home.
(But recall her first “date” with me. The drunkeness followed by the horniness.)
Anyway, once Vesuvius had erupted — and I didn’t flee the scene — the eruptions became more frequent. They were almost always about trivial things. Perceived slights. Irrational interpretations of meaningless events. The fact that I got my hair cut a tad too short.
Along the way she confided more. She said a neighbor, a guy who lived behind her and her then-husband, also had raped her. It happened about a year before I met her. The guy had had a party at her house that ended with some naked hot-tubbing. (Regan’s husband had gone home before the hot tub scene.) The party broke up. Everyone was gone as Regan was gathering up her clothes. The neighbor grabbed her wrists and overpowered her.
From the get-go, I had more trouble buying that tale. For one thing, I happened to be at Regan’s house one night when the neighbor called. She chatted with him for 20 minutes! That seemed highly unusual to me. But I don’t claim to understand the baroque relationship dynamics that apparently exist between some rapists and their victims.
However, as our relationship wore on, it was clear that Regan had an appetite for rough sex. Nothing extreme — but also nothing of the sort that she was gonna get from her semi-wimpy husband, either.
It’s with great hesitation that I suggest that Regan might have “gotten what she wanted” that night at the hot tub party. But I know the girl. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility. (Particularly not in light of what I’ve come to know about BPDs and their propensity for risky sex.)
Speaking of which …
Seems that after the rape at college, Regan went on quite a tear of promiscuous sex. (A way of reclaiming ownership of her body, perhaps?) She also worked for a short while as a stripper and did cocaine for a spell.
Her bulimia was raging. She got down to 81 pounds (about 35 lbs. less than a healthy weight for her).
Amazingly, and without help of counseling, she somehow pulled herself out of that death spiral. She made herself start eating again. She started lifting weights. She fell in love with a fellow student whom she dated for 2+ years.
They eventually broke up (of course) and a few years later, she married a respectable, upwardly mobile, semi-wimpy guy who is not her “type” at all. Midway through our affair — and about 2 1/2 years into their marriage — she divorced him.
She was genuinely miserable in the marriage — yet she was a calmer, more grounded person before the divorce. Afterwards, she was often tense, contentious, worried, erratic. I walked on eggshells ALL THE TIME.
Looking back, here’s where I recognize becoming totally lost. I can’t stand drama queens. I briefly dated two in my 20s and ran screaming from them both. Yet I didn’t realize that Regan was the drama queen di tutti drama queens. I just thought she was troubled, stressed out, etc. Or that I wasn’t handling her properly. (Please.)
A year into the affair, I was making preparations to divorce my wife. Not so much to be with Regan as to get out of a relationship I needed out of anyway. (Long story.) But Regan and I did start cautiously talking about future-ish plans. We never let the talk go very far, but on 1/2/06, she sent me an e-mail saying how she couldn’t wait to spend the new year with me and how much she looked forward to meeting my family, etc.
Then 13 days later, she informed me that she wanted to date other men.
On one hand, I couldn’t blame her. She was young, beautiful, pursued and hadn’t had a real date since getting divorced. On the other hand, I was furious. Mainly because I was totally blindsided. The announcement came out of nowhere.
Attention, K-mart shoppers! There is a gaslight special on Aisle BPD!
She told me I was crazy, that she had several times in recent months brought up her discontent with being the closeted “girlfriend” of a married man and admitted her interest in rejoining the dating scene. Baloney. She said no such thing. She wrote no such thing. Believe me, I would’ve have remembered. Such confessions would’ve prompted emergency … discussions.
I did not take the news well. Right or wrong, I was deeply in love with her. She had said she was deeply in love with me. (I know, I know. Not capable.) Since you can’t expect much sympathy for having your heart broken by a lover you had no business with in the first place, I had to swallow that Molotov cocktail whole.
I made the mistake of not simply walking away and never saying “boo” to her again — which is always the way to go, I think. But a) I was damn near addicted to the girl; and b) I had to keep up pretenses at work. (Oh what a tangled web we weave …) We’d done a devilishly superb job of keeping everyone unaware, and it would’ve been highly fishy for us to abruptly cease interacting. We were, after all, working in the same damn department by then.
The pain was awful. I used beer to self-medicate. Beer and more beer.
About six weeks after the dumping, trying to behave like the “friends” everyone perceived us to be, she, me and a male colleague met for lunch — at which she prattled on endlessly about her new boyfriend. She was totally starstruck (again). WTF? How do you go from being “in love” with Guy A on New Year’s Day to being starry eyed over Guy B by Valentine’s Day.
The bombshell was doubly vexing since the colleague and I both knew the guy to be a charlatan bum (which she discovered herself in due time).
That really set me off. My drinking accelerated. About two months later, I came into the office and found Mr. Right Now standing two feet from my desk. I was not pleased. When he departed for her desk, on the other side of the room, I followed him, got in his face and challenged him to a fight. He was grown-up enough not to bite — so I threw the contents of my water bottle all over him.
He still didn’t bite. But he was getting close. I had a sudden flash of clarity and got the hell out of there. And spend the next 8 hours driving around and drinking. I called her, of course, and unleashed a profane tirade. I drank some more. I somehow made it home — though not until I clipped off a sideview mirror; how I still don’t know — and stumbled in distraught, drunk and … in 4 hours I was admitted for a 10-day vacation at a local psychiatric/substance abuse hospital.
It helped. For a while. But I couldn’t stop myself from interacting with her (or vice versa). She had a habit of confiding in me tawdry details about sexual encounters, salted with occasional praise for The Way We Were. Over the next 4 months, I went back to that hospital for two rounds of outpatient treatment. It never really worked. Why? Because though alcohol was a big problem, it wasn’t THE problem. I know this because it wasn’t for another two years that I addressed THE problem, through counseling, at which point the alcohol problem rather quickly and easily resolved.
But first … shortly before Christmas ’06, nearly a full year after the dumping, Regan and I got into a yet another fight on the telephone. I was drinking. I was mean. I never, ever threatened her. But I carved her up mercilessly, pushing all of her BPD buttons and pointing out her manifold, selfish psychoses. (Which, at that point, was the pot calling the kettle black — times 10.)
She stopped taking my calls. I left two or three vicious voicemails before calling it a night. Two days later, she turned over her cell phone, with the saved voicemails, to our employer. They had no choice but to fire me.
Which left my wife with no choice but to divorce me. All the dirty laundry exploded into view after that.
I spent most of 2007 in a state of shock, still drinking but not nearly as much. 2008 was much better, but I was still drinking and still possessed by the demon. I seldom spoke to her anymore, but she still ate me up inside.
Last August (’08), I stopped drinking and returned to AA. I did beautifully for about 10 weeks. Then news broke that Regan was mentioned by name in an EPO filed by the estranged wife of her new boyfriend, a man with a fairly public position whose business was mired in a very public but unrelated controversy at the time. Her indiscretion became quite the cause celebre, and her affair with me became a public point of reference that her critics used to underscore her perfidy.
Still not knowing who she really was and what was bedeviling her, I couldn’t believe that Regan was so obtuse, reckless and blind as to take up with yet another married man. That fractured my fragile equilibrium and I went on another drinking spree that lasted until Dec. 9. I haven’t had a drink since, thank God.
On Jan. 1, I decided that three years was quite enough, thank you. I was not going to waste another year being possessed by this demon. I mean, we’d had very little contact for 2 years! It was all inside my head. So I found an excellent counselor and said, at the end of our first visit:
Lots of people get their hearts broken. Very few demolish their entire lives over it. I want to know why I reacted the way I did. Because it damn sure can’t happen again.
Believe it or not, I was a perfectly sane — though decidedly imperfect — fellow prior to meeting Regan the Psychological Succubus. And I was merely a casual drinker. I don’t blame her for my teetotal, unforseeable meltdown. That would be asinine. But there was something about her that was pure kryptonite poison for me. Obviously.
Anyway, the counselor helped me get my head back on straight. It was the counselor, after about two months of listening to Regan tales, said, “I’m going to e-mail you some information. Look it over and tell me what you think.”
It was diagnostic criteria and other information about BPD. The scales fell from my eyes. Things finally made some sense. They were still bloody and awful and sad, for me and Regan both, but the situation was no longer inexplicable.
My counselor has said from the start that you can’t truly diagnose something like BPD on a secondhand basis. I believe that. In fact, it wasn’t until I found this site two weeks ago — and read damn near every syllable posted here — that I allowed myself to accept that, yes, I had fallen in love with a very sick young woman. And that her illness brought out — and brought on — the illness in me.
Which is not to blame her. Or completely excuse her, either. The poor girl is like the scorpion in the old fable about the scorpion and the frog. The one where the scorpion, having talked the frog into giving it a lift across the stream, stings the frog halfway across, drowning them both. The frog asked the scorpion why it would do such a stupid, murderous thing.
“I can’t help it,” the scorpion replied. “It’s my nature.”
Epic tale Damien, Epic tale indeed.
Welcome back from the Mist.
One word: WOW!
Glad to see you pulled through…and I love your dry and black sense of humor.
Congrats my man! It takes us a while to figure out that once we men vested ourselves in these dysfunctional relationships, we must eventually admit that we were truly responsible for enduring their torturous ways. As well, you are correct that we cannot excuse our tormentor’s behavior either. Unfortunately in doing so, we tend to linger and mull their egregious nature over and over in our minds. History cannot be changed but our future can be, therefore, it is always in our best interest to close the chapters of that relationship forever more and write it off as a life’s experience we will never endure again.
If I may, I can tell you are an empathetic man by the way you still refer to her as “the poor girl”, remember this though, she had no regard for your attributes or your love. She proved this by her subsequent actions, her promiscuity, her head games and her wreckless and blatant disregard for all that are involved with her interpersonally. Walk in someone elses shoes that will appreciate what you have to offer. I mean that with the utmost sincerity.
I’ve never been much of an advocate of forums relating to abuse, as they seem to have many people that are still in abusive relationships with no intention of getting out. They need daily support from others to survive their dilemma, without true moderation from the site expert. Dr. T’s site is very different in that it attracts many that have a need to understand themselves Vs their abuser. Her thoughts and opinions are so compelling, straight forward and factual that many who read her prose will eventually see the light. She does a wonderful job supporting us guys and providing expert advice/opinions. She is logical, a realist, extremely passionate and compassionate. I have the highest regard for Dr. T,.. jmho!
Thanks, melove54,
You’re making me blush. You’re very kind and thank you for the continued support.
Thanks also for the insightful reply to Damian, especially the bit about feeling empathy toward these women. Feeling sorry for a woman like this is like leaving a fish hook in your mouth. If they tug on the line again, you’re still susceptible. You’ve got to cut the line and then remove the hook.
Best,
Dr T
BAM! What an analogy, Dr. T. Absolutely perfect! I will totally be putting this in my personal arsenal, but I promise I will credit you any time I employ it.
Hi Damian,
Your story reminds me of Eric Clapton’s song, “Cocaine:”
Lost my job, lost my house, lost my wife, lost my mind . . . She’s INSANE!
Please forgive the poor paraphrase. Your experiences are a great cautionary tale. First, it’s better to get out of one relationship before you begin a new relationship. Your marriage seems to have it’s own problems and maybe the affair with crazy lady was a way to blow that up.
Second, don’t dip your nib in the company ink—especially if you’re a man. If it doesn’t work out the woman will almost always try to get you fired.
Third, BEWARE THE DAMSEL IN DISTRESS stories. Even if her the stories all seem to have taken place in the past—they’re not. She’s seducing you into feeling sorry for her and inducing a proprietary and protective stance. in you “Oh you poor wounded bird. No one will ever hurt you again. I’ll protect you.”
This is almost always a mistake. First, do you want to be an equal partner in your relationship or a Red Cross worker? I understand that these stories usually come out piecemeal—after this kind of woman feels secure that you’ve developed enough feelings not to bail. However, this is completely dishonest. Many of these women use their alleged abuse histories to create a sense of obligation in their partners. “How could you leave me? You know what I’ve been through?” They typically hit you with this one after weeks or months of torturing you.
Regan sounds like a classic BPD. She only wants what she can’t have. When did she land her first sucker punch and end the relationship? After you told her you were going to divorce your wife. Many BPDs only pursue married or otherwise committed men.
Being able to steal a man away from another woman gives them a tremendous ego boost. “I’m so special that’s he’s leaving his wife/gf for ME.” Then once they have you, their ardor cools and the torture begins in earnest. They usually justify their change in affection toward you by saying, “How could I ever trust you? You cheated on your wife/gf?” Cue Barnum and Bailey Circus music.
Her extensive rape history seems dubious. Looks like she has a pattern of getting drunk and then crying “Rape.” No one will ever know for sure, but false rape/abuse charges are also a classic BPD trait. I think many women with BPD have significant trauma histories for which they feel a lot of shame. However, I have a theory that when they engage in consensual sex as adults that they later feel a sense of shame about, that they then label it as “abuse” or “rape.” For example, Regan gets drunk with her neighbor and they have sex in the hot tub. She feels ashamed the next day and she equates shame with rape. In my book, that’s not rape; it’s a grown woman who’s not holding herself accountable for getting drunk and screwing her neighbor.
Have you ever wondered if you’d had sex with her that first night as she wanted you to do if she would’ve cried foul afterward? Something to think about.
Ultimately, I’m happy to read that you got out and are piecing your life back together.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Hey Dr. T:
I am a regular subscriber to your site. I look each week for your new articles and find that they are just what I need to read each week to keep my head on straight when it comes to thinking constructively about the torment that I endured from my ex and the path towards healing that I’ ve been on for nearly a year now.
The odd thing is, I still find myself with sympathy for my ex – despite all of the pain that she caused me. I think the reason that I feel this sympathy for her is because, I like to think that, deep down, she is just a frightened little child doing the only thing that she knows to do to protect herself in her own dysfunction. Regardless of how much it hurts and pushes away the very people who care for her the most. I wish I didn’t. I mean, I wish I could just think of her with disdain and view her as this evil creature that so many people seem to think of BPD/NPD people to be. But I can’t. I have to admit: I still love the girl. Well, at least I love the perfect projected fantasy that she was for me for the first 6 months or so.
So, I’m curious, as a therapist who clearly tends to naturally side with the men who have endured such agonizing pain at the hands of these women – are you able to see them with compassion? Or do you feel that their actions are consciously chosen ones – which therefore kind of make them…well….evil.
I really struggle with this. Because somehow, I feel like if I don’t think of her with compassion (despite what she did to me) I have to look at her as someone who willfully and consciously destroyed me – someone who truly loved her with all of my heart. And to do that to someone consciously kind of makes you heartless it would seem.
Do you think you could possibly write an article that might give a glimpse into the minds of these women? Are they tortured children trapped in adult bodies and running on impulse? Or are they truly as heartless and evil as their actions would imply?
Quite the conundrum.
As always – thank you for your site. It’s a mind and life saver.
;-) -J
I don’t know what I would have done without your site. I’ve thought for so long that my girlfriend was abusive, but I ended up being abusive back, and I thought it was just me.
I’m losing myself, and I hope finding this site will help propel me to get the help I need.
Thank you so much! Now it’s up to me! I’m scared, and so sad. I just wanted to say thank you. It means a lot to have a female doctor validate the issues I feel that I’m dealing with.
It’s going to be such a long road…
Tara,
You are amazing, and there is no denying a lot of the things you write about BPD…. I was involved with BPD woman for 4 months the first go around, then 7 months the next.
It’s eeeerie and freaks me out how you “nail” the behaviors over and over again.. almost verbatim sometimes..
It took me about a year of therapy to finally see what was going on.. mainly because my mother was also BPD (or chemically imbalanced) with rage filled outbreaks at any given moment.. after growing up with that, you think it’s the norm… it seems acceptable.
I wasn’t perfect in the relationship, but nobody is, and I never did anything that bad.. I understand now that it wasn’t me…
I don’t need counselling, it’s been 7-8 months removed form that situation and I’m just grateful for my sanity and your site certainly brings validation to my initial gut instincts about it.
thanks
@ Patrick,
Keep reading. Her words and our stories never seem to quit hitting me between the eyes.
Her articles are so good, and then the comments afterward…Somebody understands me…..
First off, I would just like to say a friend put me on to your site, and now I can’t stop talking about it. I even just phoned a buddy and declared [about your site], “it’s even better than Craig’s List!” I’m grateful for the quality stuff in my life. Your site is fantastic. Thank you for your time and guidance. I will be sending you an e-mail in the near future.
“Better than Craigslist.” Now that’s high praise! ;-)
Thanks,
Dr Tara
Dear Dr. T,
You have a wonderful website. Your providing a great service for the guys who had abusive relationships with their X’s.
I grew up with a NPD/HPD mother as a child. I like your website but I’m not a male….but I do enjoy reading the material in your website.
Any good sites for Adult Children that you recommend?
Right now my mother is aging but she’s still the same old pain in the butt. She got into a terrible fight with my cousin when she went to England last month. Her niece had to forgo many vacations due family sickness and deaths. Her mother broke her hip recently and she canceled her trip with her husband. My Uncle died and had to take care of his estate; she had to cancel another vacation with husband. Then she was called in by the surgeons to get her carpal tunnel fixed in her two wrist; she had another cancelation.
Her husband put his foot down when her hands got infected dealing with her uncle’s paperwork. Unfortunately they took a vacation coinciding with my Mother’s trip. My mother is highly insulted because she felt her niece was being rude and she felt there is a conspiracy going on with her evil younger sister. All they did was clean out my uncle’s apartment! My mom thinks my uncle has Fort Knox and she will be excluded from the treasures.
My mother demands complete loyality to her side and she is trying to manage our vacation when my husband and I visit them next year. She told us who to see and shun the others who crossed her.
I decided to spill the beans to my cousin just last month via email about my upbringing with my NPD/HPD mother. My relatives always said they had their hands full with my mother’s antics as a young woman but they never knew why she acted that way. I told my cousin to take her vacation with her husband so she would get well.
This is my final cut off with my mother especially after showing lack of empathy towards my cousin’s well being. My mother still loves to interfere even when we live 1,000 miles away. She is now hounding my daughter because she failed to tell the Matriarch about her October trip to the UK. She is 22 years old and saved up her own money which was quite a feat for my daughter. She has been invited by my other cousin to come over. Because my daughter didn’t notify my mother first of her upcoming trip; she wants my daughter to cancel her trip. My other Uncle is getting colon cancer operation end of this month. My other cousin, according to my mother will have her plate full and it would be inappropriate to go during family crisis.
So that’s what is going on and I’m sorry about the rant.
And again I apologize for the “O’Reilly Rubble”. No matter what political affiliation you belong too your always going to have someone who will “poop in the pool”…like my mother who will spoil the water quality to get her way.
They didn’t need to resort to name calling and personal put downs. I apologize for their actions because most conservatives I know don’t act like that and many carry on civil debate.
Hi Lis,
No apology necessary. Your mother sounds like a real piece of work. Are you familiar with the blog, “Narcissists Suck?” It’s written by the adult daughter of an NPD mother. Her stance is strictly “no contact.”
I also think the best policy is to maintain as much distance as possible. The story you share illustrates that individuals with these issues rarely mellow with age. It’s sad that as your mother approaches the end of her life that her family doesn’t want to be around her, but that’s a real consequence for individuals who treat their nearest and dearest as objects/punching bags/emotional whipping posts. It’s a sad life, but that doesn’t mean you and your family should have to suffer.
I hope your daughter goes on her trip and that the rest of the family ignores your mother’s demands and tantrums. I think it’s for the best to do what you want, live the life you want and relegate your mother to mildly irritating background noise while focusing on the good stuff.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
LOVE the blog! There is quite a bit of BPD info available, but very little that is as straightforward as this, not to mention so enjoyable.
While BPD literature in general strikes close to home, your writeup on getting Screwed by and emotionally abusive woman described my marriage flawlessly! From using the promise of incredible sex to lure me, but never actually following through on the promise, to the explanations about “favors”, “chores”, and “obstacles”, it was eerily accurate.
By the way, are you available? It’s too soon to think about dating again, but I can’t help but wonder…
Also, where are you based, and do you do in-office work as well? I’ve been through plenty of therapists and psychiatrists who didn’t get it, so it’s really encouraging to hear from one who does.
Thank you!
– Jon
Hi Jon,
Thanks for the positive feedback. I’m happy you find my site helpful.
Thanks also for the chuckle this morning. I’m in a happy committed relationship with a wonderful, good man.
I do work via telephone and Skype. I left clinical practice in 2005 (i was burned out and disenchanted with the field) to pursue web-based writing. I resumed direct services in early April after receiving a lot of requests from readers for one-on-one sessions. At the moment, I’m not doing enough work to make renting an office space worth my while. I didn’t know how I’d like phone and Skype sessions at first, but overall, it’s not all that different from an in-office session and makes my services available to far more people than if I were geographically bound to just one area.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Dr. T –
A friend refered me to your website – my goodness, I now can understand some of the past 20 years of emotional abuse I’ve been in wife my BPD wife!
I’ve finally had, and we are getting divorced (just started – it should be quite a ride). We have two children – a son 11 and daughter 17. My question is – I will be forced to continue to deal with this crazy person in raising our children. How does one construct a relationship for this without being exposed to additional emotional damage?
Hi Tom,
The best advice I can offer is to set boundaries with her and keep communication brief, polite and business-like. Fortunately, as your children grow older there will be less reason to deal with her regularly—just the big occasions like graduations, weddings, etc.
Hopefully, she’ll find another bf/husband and direct most of her attentions toward him. Until such time, she’ll probably continue to needle you whenever she wants attention. Meanwhile, focus on rebuilding your life and keeping her in perspective. For all intents and purposes, you ended the relationship—that’s huge! You’ll no longer have to deal with her on a daily basis. Don’t react with anger when she provokes you (and deserves it). Remember, you reward her when you give her a reaction. Respond with politeness to emails about the kids. In fact, I encourage you to do most of your communication via email as it provides a record should you need it in court, unless it’s a medical emergency, of course.
I’m sure of the fathers on this thread can offer far better advice than me about this. Gentlemen, are there any takers?
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Ooops — could you change my name on my earlier reply? I didn’t want that to appear. Please change it to “CD”. Thanks
I found this site after Googling “abusive wife”, and I am glad I did. Thanks for writing it. I do have a question, but first I must fill in some context.
Much of the behaviors described here I can relate to in some way. However, the painful episodes in my marriage aren’t as extreme as those often described here. I’ve never been physically hit. And until just the other day, I have never been explicitly called “stupid,” or a “loser,” or “worthless,” etc. (the “stupid” barrier was broken this week).
That said, my wife can explode in anger at things that seem so trivial to me. So “walking on eggshells,” and “living in a minefield” are familiar metaphors to me. I often self-censor, just because it’s not worth the risk of setting her off.
A lot of what she complains about I just don’t think would bother most people, at least not to the same degree. There is often a kernel of truth to her complaints, but the response is so exaggerated. Often when she describes what I have done to upset her, it just doesn’t fit how I remember it or intended it. My keenest fantasy in life is what I call “the videotape fantasy” – I often wish I had a 24/7 videotape of my life, so that when she says “You said XYZ and that is just disrespectful,” I could rewind the tape and see exactly what I saw. But there is more: then this tape would be shown to a “jury of my peers” — a mixed gender panel of average people who would then judge the merit of the charge. That would help me determine when she is being unreasonable and when I am being unreasonable.
Part of the problem is that I grew up in a family that NEVER argued. I’d say it was calm to an unhealthy degree. But, if I say to my wife when she overreacts to something that I think she is overreacting, I will be told I am just wanting her to be like my mother, and never voice any discontent. That is out of line, of course, but since I didn’t really grow up in a family with “normal anger,” I have a lot of trouble judging what is a reasonable amount of anger one should expect to experience in a marriage.
I do try to listen to my wife’s grievances. A lot of them center around the fact that she takes more responsibility for the children. And she does. I work a full-time job; she works part-time. In a perfect world we would both work part-time and have benefits and incomes enough to raise the family with an equal split of responsibilities. I am not one to say “child care is women’s work” – not at all. It’s just the economic reality of our life is that one of us must work full-time. I can earn more (I have a PhD and teach college); she recognizes that it makes financial sense for me to work full-time. But she resents it. I can understand this. It isn’t a fair deal. But I feel powerless to change the economic realities in which we live.
I do what I can to make things as fair as possible. It feels like every second I am home I am doing housework – folding clothes, doing ironing, sweeping the floor, etc. – to try to pull my weight (I also have almost 100% responsibility for lawn care + home repair and renovation). And that would be OK, because these chores must get done. But she does more chores than I do, and that just fuels her anger (she is certainly not one to leave housework exclusively to me; I concede she does more). And clearly, she takes more responsibility for the kids – keeping track more than I do of doctor and dentist appointments and “snack days” at school and music lessons, etc. I try to keep up as best I can; I bet if there were a “husband quiz” among our circle of friends about each husband’s kids’ schedules, I would get among the very top scores. But it is almost always not good enough.
I can count on being criticized, in a snippy tone, around a half a dozen times a day for “not being a team player” or for this or that mistake (forgetting to get the coffee pot ready for tomorrow morning, making the kids’ school lunches too slowly, etc.). I can also count on, probably once every 10 days or so, these mushrooming into a major argument, beginning with more-than-snippy, very angry accusations (“You don’t care! You never listen to what I am saying!” etc.) If I respond back, then I am accused of being defensive. (At times I admit I am quick to get defensive, but this seems like a self-protective mechanism for coping with volume of criticism.) If I say nothing, that is even worse, for then I am “ignoring her.”
Here is my question. Should I really be suspecting something like BPD?
This blog chalks a lot of these behaviors up to BPD and NPD, it seems. But my wife’s behavior isn’t a perfect match. There is no “splitting” for instance as one finds in BPD – one day thinking you’re the villain, the next day you’re the hero. The “hero” part is missing. That is not to say I am always the villain. Rather some days I am a passable husband; other days I am the villain. Also, I wouldn’t call my wife impulsive. She is financially responsible, and in all other walks of life a very competent person. She is also a good mother to the kids.
If not BPD, what else? A mood disorder? Simple emotional immaturity? Anger-control problems?
I guess my hope is that if it is less than BPD, and more a case of garden-variety disrespectful behavior, then it will prove fix-able. I’m not ready to give up on this relationship yet. We have two amazing young children (7 and 9) whom I love dearly. True, I fear that in a divorce my wife may flee with the kids to her home country of England. But more importantly, I see that she is suffering; she never imagined herself being a part-time worker rather than full-time one; she never imagined herself having to make the compromises with life she has had to (living in another country far from family, not having an exciting career). She is having trouble dealing with this. I would like to help her deal with it. But I seem just to make it worse, or at best, make no progress.
Any advice on books to read on this?
(Note: Please don’t use my email address to respond personally. I doubt you would anyway. But I just want to say not to do this, on the off chance my wife were to notice.)
My very dear friend for 20 years is married to a BPD/NPD. They have been together about 10 years. I am the only friend from before the marriage that has not been driven away and that is only because he doesn’t tell her if we talk or have lunch together. She stopped talking with me about 5 years ago on some preceived slight.
I see what this relationship is doing to him and worry about him.
He is behaving in all the ways your articles cover of why people stay in these relationships. How can I support him to move on with his life to live healthier and happier?
Hi Janet, I don’t know what Doc Tara will say, but, not sure there is anything you can do, might be something he has to figure out for himself. In my case, she left me, blaming me for every problem we ever had. I was with her for 5 years, I think, despite the craziness, you get used to it and forget who you once were. I bet some of my friends could have written the same thing you did. Good Luck.
Hi Janet,
You could speak with him about your concerns and let him know how worried you are. Offer him information and point him in the direction of resources. He may or may not be able to hear you.
He’s the only one who can decide that he’s had enough. I know how painful it is to watch someone you care about be in an abusive relationship. In many ways, it’s like watching a person get ready to drive off a cliff and being powerless to stop them.
Best wishes,
Dr Tara
Wow, I emailed Doc Tara and she advised me to get some counseling, which I agree. The stories on here are eye-opening. I guess the struggle is as a man you think you can love this person, give her a better life.
I tried to be there for her daughter, talk to her, but, she said I was a dictator and a tyrant towards her daughter.
She made me great dinners, laughed at my jokes, made me smile.
I gave her flowers and brought her dinner on valentines day(even skipped my hockey game), she called me cheap for buying flowers from a street corner flower stand.
We traveled to great concerts, laughed, loved one another.
She was meeting my family for the first time at a football game, I had stomach issues and had to use the restroom, she met my parents while I was in there. She said I was embarrassed of her and faked the bathroom trip to not be there at the meeting.
She supported me when my boss was an idiot, told me she would be there for me always.
I was in a jacuzzi at a hotel and two girls got in, I talked to them, she lost it, saying I wanted their numbers.
She made breakfast so I could watch my Jets, served it to me.
Just a few weeks ago, she claimed my brothers wife, a doctor, stole her earrings a few years ago because she did not like her.
She is beautiful
She said I was in love with one of my best friends because I texted him during football games and called him my boyrfriend, angrily.
She showed interest in my interests, even if she did not really care
She would get angry, go to work and send me texts in bold which I could not read because of the complete anger and hate in them
She encouraged me to do the things I loved
She stopped taking the pill, did not tell me, told her friend, who had married my friend, told her not to tell anyone. Her friend told my ex that she told her husband everything. My ex stopped being friends with that girl, and, if I did anything with my friend she claimed I was on his wifes side and loved her. (she never said that her stopping taking the pill and not telling was the real problem, I did, but, she did not agree)
When people meet her they say she has a warmth about her.
If I disagreed with her on any topic, she would lose it, call me names, say I was racist(we are different races), biased or an idiot.
She went through my phone, email, drawers, found nothing but decided she found something each time, like, an email from my old roommate who is a female, and decided we were in love.
she sent me text messages, telling me how much she loved me
My blood pressure sky-rocketed and I spent many nights on the couch drinking wine to keep from keeling over.
She met my cousins, family, they loved her and took her and her daughter as part of our family.
She would go days, hours, a week without speaking to me, then hug me and all was normal.
We went to counseling, she and the counselor made me apologize.
If you are with a similar woman, think about it, you can try and try and try, you can come from a good family, you can be ready for love(I am 41 and was 36 when I met her, I thought she was it), you can change your ways, you can talk less, talk more, you can leave most of your friends, you can see your family less, you can try to help with her kids, you can take her all over the world, it won’t matter. You see, the good times are good, but, the craziness will never end.
Good luck to you all, I am out of this now and trying to remember what my days used to like.
Ouch.
Your email reminds me of the one about the bipolar girl on vacation. She sends a postcard home saying, “Having fun, wish I were dead.”
JP
Hmmmm…..
From my armchair your x sounds more to me like just a girl who was severely insecure. I don’t hear any obvious NPD/BPD behavior. At most maybe mild HPD. You don’t recount any infidelities or anything else malicious (except to herself). Now I’m not saying her behavior was normal or acceptable, just not as deadly as the behavior recounted elsewhere on this site.
You may have left out those things out, but I am going to guess not. Experiences with HPDs are generally more pleasant than the vindictive BPDs. I expect you will find that your x does not engage in the truly psycho behavior described elsewhere.
This one of my favorite postings on this site because of the good things you said about her. I bet she is a lovely person. I don’t know where things are now with the two of you, but in this case I am going to suggest you pursue any options for reconciliation. This is based on only one of your quotes: “We traveled to great concerts, laughed, loved one another.”
You can’t fix her, she has to do that, but some of them are worth saving.
Good luck.
Thanks Tara for this site, came across it last night.
I met this wonderful charming girl about 2 years ago. Im divorced and have 2 young kids.
She comes from a background where she is an only child and her father was a drug dealer and addicted and used to beat her mum. At 18 she asked her dad to leave. Apparently she got involved with men that have cheated on her and one hit her.
Ever since I met her, she had nightmares every night… she eventually became depressed and now has panic attacks (which she attributes to me)… we moved in together quickly as we both needed it, she was a south american immigrant in spain, no papers, no work, and I was inexperienced after coming out of my 13 years marriage, guess I was looking for comfort – that said we did hit it off.
Thinking back now, I think she preyed on the fact that I had been in church for sometime and been a “good boy”.
I forgave her for unforgivable things… she told me that her mum had taught her “free love”, non jealous etc… I did become insecure later in the relationship as she started to secretly correspond with an old boyfriend and once I found out she told me it was because he had used her and she wanted to lead him on to then drop him and hurt him, to get back at him. There were a lot of other things that she did, like setting up a prostitute apartment and telling me she was running it and not getting involved…. All highly believable at the time… I ge the feeling that she has an agenda to hurt men on purpose to make them pay for xyz.
She used to give me the silent treatment… Id ask what was wrong, she wouldnt answer and told me that this was the best way not to argue… she would just shut down and leave me on the outside, unable to get through to her. When she did argue, or blow up, it usually resulted in “Im leaving”… i think she packed her bags around 10 to 12 times during our 2 years together… times she left I felt so bad and went to “take care of her” as she had no where to go in a foreign country… I took her back in 5 o 6 times.
She made me think I had a problem… my dad was abusive and an alcoholic, but I swear that I am a easy going guy and the jealousy and insecurities didnt come into the relationship till she started doing these things, never made me hit her but I did spy because she repeatedly was up to no good in terms of behaving… (I think she may have been an ex prostitute as her views on what should and should not be done whilst in a relationship is highly distorted) She made me go to see a counsellor and fix myself, I was willing, thought I was completely jealous, insecure etc… and it was my fault.
Since then, Ive read Women who love too much, Verbally Abusive Man, can he change?? etc…. and unfortunately I identify with the victim, not the perpetrator and I feel completely violated and manipulated.
Anyway, in May, she got a job and after supporting her for 18 months she left me. Didnt know where she went, nothing… I went into obsessive mode in my despair of where had this person gone?? Never ever laid a hand on her or intimidated her but she told my friends that I was harrasing and she would call the police because I was an abusive man… Hang on a minute… am I paying the price for what other guys and your dad did??
I feel so sad, because she can be a very fun person and we did have a lot of good times, but she has some underlying issues that she refused to sort out, never till this day has she apologized for her behaviour and I just feel empty as she made me so dependent on her, her approval, etc… I was even considering moving somewhere else away from the kids… she is always on the run and never happy anywhere.
After reading this blog I can see that she will always be on the run (geographically) to get away from facing her inner turmoils.
I am still in therapy, to improve my self esteem now after this battering, lost my job and on antidepressants but starting to see light at the end of the tunnel and I realize that hope is a futile emotion, I can only take responsibility for and to change myself.
Thanks Tara, needed somewhere to write this.
Ben
Hi Ben,
What you went through must have been horrific. I’m so very sorry your ex treated you this way. I encourage you to continue with the supportive counseling and don’t begin any new relationships until you’ve had time to sort things out and heal from two back-to-back painful relationships.
Please check back and let me know ho you’re doing.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
My son is married to a woman that definately suffers from these personality disorders. He is living in such fear. We have been actively reading your information and he now realizes that he is being abused and wronged. He left her for a while but returned because of the three children. He is so confused about what to do. He said that he cannot stay in this relationship being treated this way but fears for the children. She says they are hers and he will pay dearly and not see them. Are the children safe if he leaves? Will they continue to be safe if they get shared custody? Is there a way in which someone will believe him about her irrational behaviors? He feels she will lie and say that he is the abuser. We all feel that the children would be better in his care.
Thanks,
Beverly
Hi Worried for my son,
I am deeply sorry that your son and your family are having such a painful experience. I know how awful this must be. Unfortunately, I can’t make predictions about your grandchildren’s safety and well-being.
I do know that being exposed to an abusive parent is never healthy for a child—whether your son stays with his wife or not. However, if he ends the relationship, recovers and becomes a strong and healthy parent, he will be a good role model for his children.
There’s no way he will regain his health if he remains in this relationship. I encourage your son find a good attorney who has experience with high conflict personalities. Furthermore, he needs to begin documenting her abuse either in a journal and/or digital recordings.
Please check back and let me know how you’re doing.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
What about doing a podcast?
Wait a minute, you are beautiful, compassionate, witty, educated AND smart? I didn’t know a woman could possess all of those qualities!
Facetiously yours,
Danielle
Hi Dr. T.
I must say your site has really opened my eyes and also has really scared the crap out of me. On the crazy bitch test i was able to say yes to 13 of them. Well i met my wife in june of 08′ and the first 6 weeks was incredible, never met anyone so passionate and caring. But after that things progressively got worse. She would start trying to break up with me on the daily basis and i would chase after her and tell her i love her and smother her in love. After a while of this i just stopped chasing but then i was a uncaring bastard who never loved her. So i would go back to her and we would talk things out and she would tell me how she was just scared because her first marriage only lasted two years and her ex-husband was abusive. (note: she divorced him at age 24. Now she is 27 and i am 23). So i tried as hard as i could to not let her down and always be understanding. But no matter how hard i tried nothing was ever good enough she would get upset over everything i did. I couldn’t have other girls numbers in my cell phone, even tho they we just friends, she would allow it, but yet she could have all the guy friends she wanted. If i went out with the guys, i was an alcholic and just went to look at other girls and i only went out with the guys about 2 times a month. But yet she could go out about 2 times a week and that was fine. So to shorten things up by the time i had a enough and i was going to run, she was pregnant. And i can’t help but feeling so stupid because she never wanted to use protection, i did but i knew if i said so it would put her into a rage and telling me how much i didnt love her. So now we’re married and my son was just born in july and things just keep getting worse. She attacks every aspect of my life. Her expectation are unrealistic. I’m not even suppose to tell if another women is good looking and have to look at the ground when we go out. She attacks my dreams, if i roll over in bed she’ll ask me in the morning why i rolled away from her and then start accusing me of dreaming about other women. And everything I do anymore leads her to ask me what i’m doing, even if i just walk from one room to another. And everyday i have to put up with out of the blue arguments about something trivial and then it always leads to her accusing me of looking at other women and wanting to have sex with them. Even though i never leave our apartment, except to go to work or unless i have to go to the store. And i must go to the store in a timely manner or i get questioned to no end what took so long. Well i could go on my days, but this in a nutshell is my life now. I use to be very happy and successful, but anymore i am losing my grasp of reality and my sanity.
Thanks,
Hi LosingSanity inNE,
It’s not too late. It’s never too late to get out, reclaim yourself and have a chance at happiness. Are you a parent or a martyr? Do you think you’ll set a good example by staying with a woman who runs you down constantly, abuses you and controls your every move? Do you want him to grow up thinking this is normal?
This will probably seem harsh, but you have to take care of yourself and leave your son with his mother for the time being. Having unprotected sex with this woman was a huge mistake, but what’s done is done. It’s not your son’s fault his mother is how she is, but I don’t think you’re required to pay for the rest of your life because you exercised bad judgment with this woman. Yes, she will probably retain custody and damage your son’s psyche, but she’s going to do that even if you stay in the relationship. Wouldn’t it be better to provide him with a healthy parent who has an island of sanity away from his crazy mother? At least you’d be giving him an alternate world view and, if you find a kind, non-abusive woman and remarry, a chance to see what a loving and healthy relationship looks like.
Let her keep her little hostage for now and get out. Honestly, if more men didn’t fall for the pregnancy trap and let it backfire on these women, maybe they’d stop dragging innocent new lives into their toxic miasma of dysfunction.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
Dr. T,
Thank you very much for your quick response. I’ve been thinking about getting my ducks in a row to leave her for about a month now. My dad has already told me to just say the word and he’ll setup a meeting with his attorney for me. He also has already said he’ll give all the money needed to get me away from her too. But i can’t help but wonder, could she really just be scared because her first husband abused her and she can get better with counseling. Or do you think that my wife just uses that as an excuse for her actions, because i’ve heard the same for a year and she always promises me it will get better but never does. When she is in a good mood we are perfect together and she’ll sit down and admit her actions are not normal and she will actually consider counseling. But the minute she starts feeling down or some small thing will trigger a mood swing, she will not admit anything and it’s all my fault because i’m a guy. Then she will say the most hurtful things in the world to me and will start saying she doesn’t need couseling because i’m a guy and everything she accuses me of is justified for that fact. I just get so confused at which personality is her true self. But i have noticed this all goes in a cycle, happy, sad, happy, sad, day in and day out. The longer we’re together the less amount of time between her being loving and her accusing and being hateful. Do you think counseling could help her? I really feel like i should for the sake of my son give that a try and if she wont go or doesnt get better then i must leave. I do still love her, but it is getting harder. And her issues with intimacy are just outrageous too and she blames all that on her ex-husband as well. I guess what i’m getting at here, is do you think her first marriage really did make her that scared of men or do you think she always has been this way which is why her first marriage didnt work out. Because some of the things shes said she fought with him about are the same issues she fights with me about. And another thing is she runs my parents down all the time because my parents will go to rodeos and will go to a bar with a wet t-shirt contest. She thinks low of my mom because she doesnt have a problem with my dad seeing that and she thinks my dad is a fithly pig because hes allowed to look at it. Sorry, i’m just rambling, as you can tell i’m extremely confused because she can still be at times be very loving and caring and will admit she has a problem. But once her hair trigger is tripped she is just plain hateful for hours, if not days, and she’ll take down anyone with her. Thank you so much for listening.
I found your website very helpful. Now I’d like to talk to you about my marriage and how my wife treats me. I need help figuring out if it is bad enough to leave. We have been married for 27 years. Could you advise how your fees run for telephone consultations?
Thanks,
Walt
Dr. Tara,
This site is so awesome I think you should also do a regular relationship site too that’s more general. You have a lot of valuable insight to share. I love reading this site!
:)
Laura
Hi Laura,
Thanks. It’s very kind of you to say so.
I’ve considered doing a general relationship site, but I’ve either got to find the time or find a way to earn an income doing so. This site has become a second full-time job (the non-paying variety), in addition to the full-time job I have that keeps body and soul together. I’m passionate about getting the word out and educating others, but also have to be able to support myself.
My traffic has been growing steadily since January, which means there’s a need for this material. I’m working on a trilogy of e-books right now for this subject matter. Once I get that finished and see how it goes, maybe I’ll consider branching out. Until then, thank you for your continued support and participation on the site. I really appreciate it, Laura.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
I’d definitely buy your books!!! I searched amazon.com and there doesn’t seem to be much of anything out there that looks any good for men dealing with some of this stuff. Your advice is practical, to the point, and is very useful and helpful. I like that your blogs are free of a flaky, excessively emotional, whiny tone that I seem to find in some of the other pop-pysch books I’ve read (although, I must confess I’ve only read about 4 of these things over the past year or so).
I think you are a wonderful writer and should use this blog as the basis for writing books about men recognizing, dealing with, and escaping from emotionally abusive relationships with women. Keep up the great work!