Home > Borderline Personality Disorder, Abusive relationships, relationships, Marriage, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Psychology, divorce > Sex and Control: How Men Get Screwed by Emotionally Abusive Women

Sex and Control: How Men Get Screwed by Emotionally Abusive Women


giant screwSex is a very important part of a healthy and loving relationship. If you’re involved with an emotionally abusive narcissistic and/or borderline woman, the sex has probably become bad for your self-esteem and general well-being, just like everything else in your relationship.

NPD/BPD women basically have three behaviors toward sex: hyper-sexuality, hot and cold, or frigidity. Sometimes, the same woman can alternate between all three behaviors.

[Note: Sex drives may vary greatly from person to person and aren't necessarily an irresolvable issue in an otherwise loving and compatible relationship. This post focuses on the unhealthy attitudes and behaviors these women have toward sex.]

First, let’s explore the essential elements for love and a fulfilling sex life.

Vulnerability, trust, intimacy, empathy, and  respect (or the lack thereof).

There are 5 prerequisites for love and great sex:

  1. Vulnerability. This means taking a risk, exposing your true self, your needs and desires. It’s risky because you could be rejected or ridiculed. It’s impossible for an NPD/BPD woman to make herself vulnerable because she’s invested most of her life in crafting an elaborate and rigid false self to hide her highly damaged true self.
  2. Trust. You trust your partner to accept you and to not deliberately hurt you. This woman trusts no one. She believes everyone is out for themselves and trying to “get one over” on her. This is an example of projection. She’s out for herself and tries to constantly get one over on you.
  3. Intimacy. This is about sharing and getting close physically, psychologically and emotionally.
  4. Empathy. This requires being in tune with the other person and being able to experience how they feel and what they want and need.
  5. Respect. This woman treats her husband or boyfriend like an object; not an equal partner whose feelings and needs are just as important as her own. Bottom line: She doesn’t respect you.

An emotionally abusive NPD/BPD woman is incapable of empathy. She’s incapable of seeing any viewpoint other than her own and only cares about her needs and feelings. She’d rather stick bamboo splinters under her fingernails than feel vulnerable and she cannot, cannot tolerate emotional and psychological intimacy. She can tolerate some physical intimacy, as long as it doesn’t lead to the other forms of intimacy. Basically, in order to avoid emotional and psychological intimacy, she either engages in hyper-sexuality or avoids sex altogether. But why?

True intimacy means sharing your good qualities as well as your faults and insecurities with your partner, which this woman will never do. Not only does this woman not let down her guard, she ‘s constantly attacking you or pushing your buttons in order to keep her vulnerabilities from being exposed. Consequently, you feel unsafe and on your guard, even though a love partner is the one person with whom you should feel safe enough to let down your guard. This doesn’t bode well for a mutually satisfying sex life.

So why is she even in a relationship if she doesn’t trust, respect or love you?

1. You’re her normalcy prop. Being married or in a committed relationship gives her the appearance of normalcy to the outside world. You play an integral role in maintaining her false self. “See. Someone wants me. There’s nothing wrong with me. Normal people get married. Therefore, I’m normal because I’m married.

2. She can’t exist without attention. Good attention, bad attention; it doesn’t matter. For her purposes, you could be anybody. She likes the idea of having a boyfriend or husband in the abstract, but the reality of being in a relationship is filled with frustration and disappointment for her because you’re not “perfect” or “good enough” for her highly inflated false sense of self. She soon grows to resent you and then the covert and overt abuse and rage attacks begin.

As a result of not living up to her lofty and unrealistic expectations (by the way, no one is capable of doing so), she doesn’t really like you very much. She plays the role of martyr to the hilt, professing her love for you in one breath and cutting you down and shutting you out with the next. You can’t have a satisfying emotional and physical connection with  someone who doesn’t like you and sees you as a “disappointment.” This is another example of projection. In reality, she’s the disappointment and failure as a life partner.

It all comes down to control and bolstering her ego.

Sex isn’t about expressing love, lust, intimacy, passion, affection or mutual pleasure. Instead, many of these women use sex to lure you into the relationship. Once she feels confident that she’s hooked you, sex becomes one of the ways she controls you—either by “sexing you up” or by withholding it. There are two primary ways of doing this.

1. The insatiable sexual virtuoso. The sex starts off with a “bang.” The sheer intensity of it is mind blowing, but DECEIVING. The intensity is actually a symptom of the severity of her pathology. What seems like intense passion to you, is really her intense need to control and dominate you into submission. I repeat, it’s about controlling you, not pleasing you.

You’re also her sex prop. She treats you like a mechanical object/scratching post/human vibrator and/or a way to make herself feel desirable, sexy or “the best.” Roger Melton, M.A. explains: “I love you” means “I need you to love me.” “That was the best ever for me” means “Tell me it was the best ever for you. Show me that I have you.” Sex isn’t an act of true intimacy, but rather another way for her to feel admired and in control. Eventually, this will cause you to feel used and distant instead of loved and emotionally connected. This form of sexuality may be constant or blow hot and cold. It depends upon how often she needs this kind of validation and/or how great her need for control is.

2. The withholding “welcher.” Alternately, an emotionally abusive, NPD/BPD woman lures you into a relationship with the unspoken promise of passionate sex once you’ve “proven” yourself and she “feels” she can “trust you.” Alexander Lowen, M.D. explains this kind of seduction as “a false statement or promise to get another person to do what he or she would not otherwise do. The promise can be explicitly stated, or it can be implied. Psychopathic swindlers openly promise something they have no intention of giving. But most seductive ploys involve promises that are not clearly stated” (Narcissism: Denial of the True Self, p. 102).

This is a trap because the passionate sex never materializes. You have to keep proving yourself “worthy” of her and, as many of my readers know, nothing is ever enough for these women. You can never be “nice” enough, do enough or meet any of her other ill-defined, diffuse, shifting rules and requirements enough for her to “reward” you with sex. Sex is a chore for this woman, an obligation or a “favor” she begrudgingly bestows with growing infrequency and ultimately becomes a transaction.

A transactional relationship is one in which person “A” provides a service in exchange for person “B” providing a service. Prostitution is a kind of transactional relationship and so is sex with this kind of NPD/BPD woman. In other words, if you want to get laid, then you have to give her something she wants or behave how she wants you to behave. This is another way she controls you.

There’s always an agenda, even if it’s having sex so you won’t end the relationship. It’s still a transaction. “You owe me because I let you have sex with me. I did my ‘duty,’ so now you can’t leave.” Most men are so grateful for even the smallest scrap of affection that they ignore the perfunctory and disinterested way in which their wife or girlfriend treats sex. Like a man who’s been wandering through the desert views a thimble full of water; you’re grateful for what little you get.

No matter the scenario, you’re not her beloved, equal partner; you’re either a “to-do” list item, a human vibrator, and/or a way for her to feel like “she’s still got it.”

Shame and sex don’t mix.

This kind of woman may also increase her control by combining sex with shame. For example, she labels you as “perverse,”  “sick” or “abnormal” for wanting sex, when she’s the one who has a perverse, twisted sexuality and relationship beliefs—this is more projection. Typical statements include: “There’s something wrong with you. You’re a sex addict. You’re a pervert. All you want is sex.” Shaming you for the very natural desire of  physical intimacy in your committed relationship is incredibly abusive and scarring.

The NPD/BPD woman will only have sex when she wants it, which is usually after you’ve been so beaten down that you no longer have any interest in touching her. Contrary to what she believes, criticism, rages, and the cold shoulder do not make for great aphrodisiacs. When you tell her that you’re not in the mood (go figure), she insults your manhood, accuses you of infidelity, of not loving her and so on and so forth.

She expects you to perform a thousand and one feats of devotion before she takes the lid off the cookie jar, yet expects you to perform on demand whether you want to or not. This is another example of her utter lack of empathy. Sex is about what she needs in that given moment and has nothing to do with you. You’re nothing more than object who exists to service her every whim, need and insecurity.

Screwed, but not in the good way.

In the end, a Narcissistic-Borderline woman tends to make a poor lover. Even if she’s mastered a range of techniques, sex is ultimately a mechanical act devoid of true intimacy. If you view sex as simply a mechanistic, impersonal stimulus/release interaction, this may be enough. If you view sex as a medium of expression in which you share love, lust, playfulness, raw animal passion, desire, tenderness and mutual fantasies, sex with this kind of woman will never be enough. Sex becomes just another empty and dissatisfying exchange with your partner.

For those of you who think you’ve lucked out because you’re with the sexual performer, think again. It may be more difficult to end your relationship because you’re also confusing sex with intimacy and can fall back on the lie, “at least the sex is good.” Is it really? Or is it making it more difficult for you to recognize the degree to which you’re being abused, to end the relationship and to find a woman who’s capable of true intimacy?

by Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD

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  1. Ron
    October 6, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    I’ve read most of this thread and all I can say is that trying to have a decent sex life with a NPD woman will drive you nuts. I know that is not profound or specific, but it is true.
    Here are a few things that happened to me that have left me very badly damaged in this area.
    My first wife, while we were dating , was so incredibly unpredictable in this area. I never knew if it was appropriate to initiate, as, many times, I was rebuffed with some vague allusion to something I was not doing right. This was not an allusion to any technical aspect of performing, but, typically, some emotional deficiencies I had or was currently displaying.
    My first wife told me that she got very turned on by someone talking dirty to her during sex. I was not at all proficient or familiar with this, but, one time, I gave it a try(probably borrowed some line from Penthouse forum or something).
    She went nuts and told me I was disgusting> I felt like an idiot. She had told me this was what she wanted and I tried it, only to be derided,And, as in many other areas, she completely denied ever having said or sugggested this. Made me think I was having auditory hallucinations.
    Sex became very infreuqent as she was tired or I was not “connected” enough(although I ultimately found out she was having serial affairs. Must have been a huge connection with all the casual , one night stands).
    I divorced her, after reading about her escapades in her journal.
    My second wife was different, but the same. She was much more sexual when we dated and , once tried to jerk me off in a movie theater. When I told her to quit or I might lose my law license, she was pissed.
    She would feign attraction/lust for me at times when there was absolutely no opportunity to consumate things. It is so hard to describe this, but any type of physical overture she would make was really as if she was doing a caricature. She could never be serious or tender and she could never, ever bring herself to say she loved me.
    Each night, early in our marriage, I would tell my wife I loved her as we were going to sleep. Not once did she ever respond in kind, and, really, she would not even acknowledge hearig me say this.
    I stopped saying it after a while, as I felt foolish being left hanging all the time. This enraged her and I was told I held a grudge for her earlier failure to respond. I did not,I simply felt like an idiot and assumed she did not like hearing that I loved her, as she never acknowledged it.
    One little epsiode kind of sums up what it was like. I was cooking the family dinner and the kids were in the other room. My wife began fondling me and opened my zipper. Things progressed and , suddenly she just stopped. I asked her if she wanted to go to the bedroom and she repilied “no. I just wanted to make sure that I “” Still got it”””.
    I had a couple other instances where she would get me excited and just stop. It was uncomfortable.
    I was also told that I was “like a woman” and “had no dick”. eventually, I had so much anxiety , I needed Viagra to perform and , even then it was difficult.

    • Mike91163
      October 6, 2009 at 8:29 pm

      Ugh…I feel for you, Ron…we all sadly share the same tales of woe, with slight variations.

      It’s always about the control with these women, as illustrated by your “kitchen” example..and while I never experienced the disgusting remarks in your last paragraph, “the little blue pill” didn’t seem to help much, either…Yet, I’ll bet that if or when you had the opportunity to “take care of yourself”, you had no “performance issues”, right?

  2. NoSeRider
    September 28, 2009 at 4:06 am

    [quote]I’m not sure I fully understand the alpha male/beta male distinction.[/quote]

    I don’t think anybody should describe themselves as an alpha/beta male/female unless they’re living with a pack of dogs, won’t even dignify that with comparing it to wolves. I think issues of dominance causes BPD/NPD traits to begin with. I’ve read that perfectionism, overly critical thinking and violence by family members or other people that they are close to contribute to their personality disorder.

    BPD/NPD disorders have statistically risen from 2 percent to 6 percent under recent study with a sampling of 35,000 people, which is far as I can tell is the most extensive study done which supposedly should reflect the overall status USA population.

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1870491,00.html

    Basically, I’m asking with such a dramatic increase in percentage, I’m wondering if this is a learned behavior more then a genetic disorder?

    • shrink4men
      September 28, 2009 at 3:14 pm

      I read this article. I have a problem with it in that they don’t cite the studies they base the article on nor do they discuss the methodology. The jump from 2% to 6% doesn’t necessarily mean that BPD is on the rise, but rather that it was under-reported in the past and/or that it’s a condition insurance companies will actually cover, so that therapists who were reluctant to give the diagnosis in the past are doing so now.

      I think it has both a genetic and environmental component. In that, an individual may have a genetic predisposition to it and if they are raised in the “right” environment, it develops. Here’s the rub: if you learn certain maladaptive behaviors (e.g., borderline behaviors) logic follows that you can un-learn them. However, it’s very hard to give up the illegitimate power of bad behaviors in which the BPD frightens their loved ones into walking on eggshells and completely dancing to their tune.

      Furthermore, treatment for BPD can take 10 years or longer? I really do hope individuals with this order can learn how to behave in a healthy adult relationship, but if I were the partner of a BPD, I wouldn’t want to spend a decade with the hope that “maybe” things will get better.

      Best,
      Dr Tara

      • Mike91163
        September 28, 2009 at 3:40 pm

        Reading my mind, Doc? Here’s a comment I put here (http://bpd.about.com/b/2009/01/11/divorce-a-spouse-with-borderline-personality-disorder.htm): “Lastly, this “myths” page (http://bpd.about.com/od/forfamilyandfriends/a/bpdmyths.htm) is full of myths as well…for example, #5 states that “…88% of BPDs go into remission within 10 years…” EXCUSE ME? Here’s why:

        —This apparently assumes that the BPD person gets a diagnosis, AND is willing to get into therapy (DBT);
        —And what about the spouse/family during this ten year period? Are they just supposed to deal with it, just as they’ve done for decades prior?”

        While I understand that Ms. Salters-Pedneault’s focus is on the BPD individual, she and others like her utterly fail to address the victims of the BPD patient…I hate to sound selfish, but damn, WHAT ABOUT ME?????

    • Mike91163
      September 28, 2009 at 3:17 pm

      Excellent question, NoSeRider…I’m no doctor or scientist, but I think there’s a third factor which plays a role, and it fits perfectly in the scheme of this article… and that’s the “over-drugging” of people (the USA in particular), and more specifically pregnant women. Of course, we really don’t know just how prevalent BPD or NPD was 30-50 years ago, but, given the enormous increase in prescribing of various mind-alerting drugs since the 60’s, you have wonder if the developing brains of fetuses who became children and then adults were “damaged” by “Mother’s Little Helper”, as Mick Jagger so aptly sung.

      It would be quite interesting to conduct a study of the children of women who were on such substances while pregnant to see what percentage of these children have emotional or mental issues…then again, the pharmaceutical industry would find some way to squelch or discredit the findings, don’t you think???

      That said, I do think it’s probably more of a nuture/childhood problem rather than genetics…that is not to say that ALL children of BPD/NPDs wind up with problems, but a large majority of BPD/NPDs do have seriously wacky family backgrounds…

      • NoSeRider
        September 28, 2009 at 3:41 pm

        http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/43/15/38

        This website indicates a study of 35,000 people at approximately the same time stated that 6 percent of the general population has NPD.

        Since BPD/NPD are usually co-morbid traits, I’m assuming this is the same study and they were studying many personality disorders within this group.

      • melove54
        September 28, 2009 at 7:17 pm

        To all concerned,
        Jmho, I believe that we are all genetically predisposed to something. It’s what makes us either unique in good ways, and bad in others. Circumstances in our lives, environment are what either develop the good or exacerbate the bad predispositions. Likewise, you can take a perfectly good human being and “f” them up royally!! Somewhat like us guys who deal with the “crazy making” woman in our life. The silver lining is these cases are, it’s temporary for us, we have the opportunity to recover if we choose.

        We can seek an understanding of our abuser’s reasons for how they are till the end of time and it won’t change the fact or reality of what we endure/ have endured. I used to try to figure this all out and all it did was continue to remind me of my X, and created hatred,resentment, animosity, and regret. It’s like you say Dr. T, no matter the circumstances under which the NPD/BPD acquired their dysfunctional condition, I’m not waiting a decade for their remission. My life is too important for me to waste the time figuring out why, when it was more important to understand the signs and to realize I was my own worst enemy, not her.

        I realized the quality of life I desired did not exist, nor would it ever exist with my NPD mate. If we’re good people, we all want to give others benefit of the doubt, we want to get closer and save them from their sufferage,.. we also have to live with self 24/7, and so do they!! Better them than me!

        You cannot save them, you cannot appease them, and you truly don’t need to know how they got the way they are, you only need to know whether you can do this crazy making shit 24/7!! We also must understand whose best interest we’re serving,.. ourselves, them, you’re children? Especially the children, for if you want to sacrifice any part of your life, do it for their sake. You don’t want them to experience or to be exposed to any more of the crazy-making life style of a dysfunctional parental relationship than is necessary!

        It’s truly not a family environment that you’re holding together when someone believes maintaining the unity is perceived as the best option , it is far from it!! Those children are individuals now and they will be individuals when they grow up. However, parents are integral to the child’s belief system as adults.

        Get over why, and simply understand that the signs exist, resolve yourself to this, and be resolute to the same degree for the children’s sake. And for what it’s worth, understand too, be an example to your children, show them your are the bigger person, rid yourself of animosity and adversity with their dysfunctional mother. Fulfill what you say to your children, for such words backed by your positive actions, are your only ally against the dysfunctional mother. Fail to do this one or more times, and she will put your “head on a stick” and wield it before the children. Disappoint these children and she will be in control once again. This is the toughest part for those men with kids. Otherwise, if there are no children involved, life is much less complex.

        If you are not a well organized person, begin to learn. This shortcoming could be a potential weapon added to her arsenal that she will use against you. You can have all the good intent and be the best of people in this world, without good planning and organizational skills, it (she) will bite you most assuredly. Your life will definitely require dramatic change, and believe me, it will be for the better, I promise you.

  3. Phil
    September 27, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Item #2 especially hit home. My wife tells me she loves me but does not like me. Plus I’ve been told what a huge disappointment I am to her “on many different levels”. This coming from a woman who has held no job for more than three months (only two), calls me a workaholic, never gives me credit for providing for her and our children (all grown now). One of her all time classic statements is that only stupid people work for a living.

    She went back to school some years ago and got a degree which she never used. I do not resent her not working but I’d like a little credit on my end.

    Perfect I’m not but her total lack of empathy for me and others is something has taken me a long time to understand. Your insight and that of other professionals regarding NPD/BPD has provided a means to make sense out of what has happened in my life.

    Until recently I did not know what NPD/BPD/Histrionic personality disorders were. For years she has dished out non-stop criticism and verbal abuse. I just attributed it to her being high strung not knowing anything else to call it. Yes I did withdraw into my job and can remember day after day of dreading to go home.

    She can control her behavior when in the public eye or when it suits her. During a recent rage I told her she was out of control and she stated she ” No I’m not I can turn this off and on like a light switch”.

    I’ve been told repeatedly that it is my job to make her happy and gets very angry when I tell her that’s not my job.

    Yes I know I’ve taken very poor care of myself in this relationship but with professional help that is changing. I wish I had started many years ago, if I had only known how insane all this is.

    Your blog is helping many open their eyes for the first time keep up the good work.

    • shrink4men
      September 28, 2009 at 3:04 pm

      Hi Phil,

      Reading your tale made me angry. The depths of entitled and ingratitude are staggering. “Only stupid people work for a living?” Okay, try this on for size, “Only lazy, entitled, self-important PARASITES expect other people to support them.”

      I hope the professional help you’re receiving is encouraging you to find a way out of this relationship.

      Your comment is very telling about how women like your wife think—especially the part about being able to turn the rage on and off like a light switch. This confirms what I’ve been saying for months: DON”T BE AFRAID OF THE NPD/BPD RAGE. IT IS A DEVICE THESE WOMEN USE TO CONTROL YOU BY MAKING YOU REACTIVE. When she goes off on one of her tirades, don’t defend yourself. Don’t become conciliatory. Look at her like a parent would a 3-year old who’s having a tantrum with a bemused smile on your face and walk away.

      I wish you the best in reclaiming your life and happiness.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  4. Jim
    September 23, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    A piece of advice, and I beg to differ with you Dr. Tara.. As an attorney myself, never hire a divorce attorney in which you see NPD tendencies. In the end, you will see the same splitting with the client. The attorney will go hot and cold on you and become reactive. I have seen it and it will cost you. Unless your attorney treats you well and with respect (with divorce attorneys as a class are wont to do), dump him/her before they dump on you.

    As for sex, my X of twenty years did not want to kiss for the last seven years or so of my marriage! Actually, kissing is such a fun, close and intimate thing. When she later went Jekyll and Hyde on me, she admitted that she quit being a wife (i.e. basically hated me) for years upon years. Sickeningly, I was having sex with her for years and years (she would have multiple orgasms pretty easily) and she was simply using me.

    She never could really let her guard down despite me saying that I could please her. I also remember sex being kind of rote from her until she was trying to get pregnant when all of the sudden she was really being sexy. Why? She wanted to ensure she got pregnant as was as sexy as when we first were courting. She wanted something.

    She ended up having some sort of inability to enjoy sex, though, as I later found out in psychological papers. I remember she would have a hard time getting aroused enough at first (maybe because she was just going through the motions).

    In any event, being used like a vibrator is not what I signed up for to be sure. I am basically the type of guy who does not want to have sex with someone without first loving them; she is the opposite – there never is any love.

    The embarassment for myself in being fooled by such a person is tough. I never did expect enough to even notice how weird all this was. That is what is eye-opening. How in the world did I fail to notice that she didn’t light up and smile when I came home?

    How did I not notice that she never made fun of herself?

    How did I not notice that it is freaky that someone doesn’t want to kiss you?

    I guess it all just creeps up on you and it gets worse and worse – like the frog in water that is heated up, he doesn’t get out until it is too late and he is boiled.

    A rule of thumb – if anyone has any type of weird “personality change” during any relationship – get away. If they tell you that they are not right inside or they put on a shield or face to protect themselves (which my X did early on and like a moron I thought it was nonsense) get away. It only gets worse – including the sex.

    As for sex, it is unfathomable to me that my X

    • jham123
      September 23, 2009 at 5:31 pm

      @ Jim,

      “As for sex, it is unfathomable to me that my X……….”

      LOL, someone come in the room??

      I’m just kidding with you as I’ve done the same thing on this blog just Yesterday.

      Yeah, the kissing thing and emotionless Sex…..it IS Hurtful that she has the look of “When will this will be over” on her face almost all the time…..

      amazingly similar stories.

      I also feel embarrassed and betrayed.

    • mike91163
      September 23, 2009 at 5:59 pm

      Jim:

      You’re an attorney? Did you hire an investigator to look in my windows??? :-) It is FRIGHTENING the amount of deja vu moments I get reading everyone’s tales of woe…me too with the whole kissing thing-I’ve been getting the cheek instead of the lips for quite a few years as well…

      “She ended up having some sort of inability to enjoy sex, though, as I later found out in psychological papers. I remember she would have a hard time getting aroused enough at first (maybe because she was just going through the motions).”
      —It seems like this is a common thread as well…I would also get the “…you’re hurting me” line as well, even when I initiated PLENTY of foreplay to make sure there was sufficient “arousal”…and once, when I tried to make her feel better about herself by saying “You feel really nice and wet…”, she responded “Just SHUT UP and f*ck me…” and “…just get it over with already…” Yeah, those are real “mood enhancers”…and of course, when “Mr. Happy” became “Mr. Sad”, it was MY fault, not hers…yeah, it’s real fun trying to make love to a corpse…sorry hon, I ain’t into necrophilia!

      Jim, what do you know of your ex-wife’s childhood? What about her parents and siblings? Between this site and others, it seems there’s a recurring vein of spouses that have endured a variety of verbal, physical, or sexual abuse during their childhood years, as well as parents who had NPD/BPD issues, alcoholism/drug abuse, and siblings with similar problems.

      Oh, and just for the record, so you can perhaps feel a bit better, it’s been over THREE years since I was “intimate” with my wife…why try? Why bother? I’m sticking to “Rosie Palm and her 5 sisters” until I get outta this mess…

    • StillRecovering
      September 27, 2009 at 3:23 pm

      Jim,

      As the other guys have stated, you’ve described my ex to a T. I remember she came on so strong when we first started dating, that it was startling and a little intimidating. I’m a pretty reserved guy, and I was not as sexually experienced as she was, so her intense desire for sex was not something I had experienced before. I now realize that was red flag number 1.

      There was an incident about a month before we got engaged where, after sex one evening, she told me that she’d forgotten to take her birth control for about a week. She didn’t like me to wear condoms of any kind because she said they irritated her, so I was scared out of my mind that I may have gotten her pregnant. Looking back, I’m pretty certain she never “forgot” her pills, that it was in fact a trap, and that she was probably hoping to get pregnant to make sure I would be certain to marry her. After that, I had incredible difficulty reaching orgasm with her. I could become aroused with no problem, but no orgasm. It made her upset, and it made me feel horrible, but my mind just would not let it happen. I blamed myself, but it is really difficult to be intimate with someone when you can’t trust them, or you don’t feel truly loved by them. The pill incident was just one in a series of events that really damaged the trust I had in her. On top of that, she always wanted sex fast and quick. She would frequently say to me, right before sex, “okay, you have five minutes.” She might as well have just kicked me in the crotch, because this had the same effect.

      As her desire for sex dropped off to almost nothing once we were engaged, the orgasms stopped all together. I just couldn’t do it. I would have to “finish up” by myself afterwards, but I couldn’t with her around. I had become so disgusted with her, both mentally and physically, that I got to the point that I was almost relieved that she didn’t want to have sex with me. Looking back, I get angry that I continued to stay in such a twisted relationship, that I actually remained engaged and married this crazy woman, and also ashamed by it, but I also tend to blame myself for the end of our marriage, that I was so inadequate in the bedroom that she had to find someone else. Logically, I know this is not true, that my mind was actually stopping my body from doing something I really didn’t want to do, but it is difficult. I find myself fearing the same thing may happen in my next relationship.

      StillRecovering

      • jham123
        September 27, 2009 at 3:30 pm

        @ Still Recovering,

        Wow, that is pretty amazing……funny, they all say the same thing about birth control huh?

        condoms are [insert excuse here] and the pill…..somethings always wrong there as well.

    • shrink4men
      September 28, 2009 at 2:53 pm

      Hi Jim,

      Thanks for the advice re: not hiring a NPD attorney. It’s tempting to think, “Fight a narcissist with another narcissist.” However, there’s a book by William Eddy, “High Conflict Personalities in Legal Dispute” that states many “high conflict personality” (NPD, BPD, APD, HPD) individuals seek out negative advocates (who I also suspect are personality disordered) who fight dirty, file false abuse allegation charges, whatever it takes to “win” and that amicable, resolution-focused attorneys are often unsuccessful when pitted against negative advocates. Not that you should hire a negative advocate, because they run costs up, drag out the process, etc. It’s better to hire an attorney who can play hardball and use facts to fight the emotional reasoning, drama and falsehoods of negative advocates.

      Are there any criteria you can recommend readers to look for in an attorney with the understanding that this is a blog and that it’s personal and not professional advice?

      As for the rest of your comment, it’s often hard to see the forest for the trees when you’re smack dab in the middle of the forest. It’s natural to minimize, ignore or rationalize these behaviors because to truly recognize what and who you’re dealing with is initially unsettling and makes you feel like the crazy person. It’s difficult for most people to fathom that the person they live with and sleeps next to them at night, hates them and feels nothing but contempt and resentment for them. Normal people don’t live like that, so it’s almost impossible to wrap your mind around it. It’s also hard not to take it personally and feel devastated. The reality is, a woman like your wife would feel that way about anyone who tries to get close to her.

      Also, the abuse usually amps up gradually over time, so you become desensitized to it—much like a frog in a pot of boiling water (gruesome, but accurate imagery). This is why it’s so important not to let yourself become isolated from people who are supportive and can provide you with a reality check. Keeping a journal, word document, or abuse spreadsheet (whatever you’re comfortable doing) to keep a record of events so you have proof that you’re not “imagining things” and that things really are that bad is very important, too.

      Your rule of thumb is spot on. Don’t explain weird personality changes away. This is your warning sign and it is your responsibility to pay heed. If not, you make yourself a willing victim, like sailors who are lured upon the rocks by the siren song of Circe.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

      • melove54
        September 28, 2009 at 5:29 pm

        Hey Dr. T!
        As you may recall, my X-NPD is a Family Law Attorney, she hates the office and the court room is her stage,..she thrives to litigate. It’s where she feels the most natural. Based upon conversations, and watching her the courtroom, it was apparent the syncronicity of her expert witnesses and her were so well prepared, somehow though, especially knowing her as I did in the relationship, you sense the collaboration to be more personal than professional. I sensed that they were on the edge or borderline of truth and facts, just enough to remain convincing. JMHO, this would be difficult to do with an ethical and moral expert witness. In other words, she used them to manipulate her cases to her desire, and they were willing to go along. All she needed to know was the opinion of these experts, and prepare to litigate in much the same manner she would outside the courtroom,i.e., use of rhetoric, emotional manipulation, etc. She used to laugh about how she knew these judges so well and would create her case based upon how she could manipulate them. Facts were of limited concern to her in the court room, however, facts were important to her from whom she represented. A client could not leave out anything, they could not lie to her, etc., because her biggest fear was being made a fool on her stage(the courtroom). In five years that I was with her, twice she lost cases and she was totally distraught for days on end. Accepting loss was not in her agenda. Do what it takes to win, despite morals, ethics, etc. Expert witnesses were no different, she manipulated them as well, she was that convincing.

        One thing I always thought was unusual was the way my X-N charged her clients. She would take the time to study what she was up against in a case, and charge a flat fee. She never strung out costs in any way. Her theory was based upon the time she truly felt it would take to win and was confident and successful to that end. She could not stand the idea of stringing a case out for it would drive her insane! She didn’t like the additional paperwork involved, which meant she would have to hire more people, and the more people she had to deal with, well, let’s put it this way, they wouldn’t work for her very long! She has one paralegal that she pays far above the normal salary most paralegals receive. The poor girl catches hell all the time. My X’s theory was this paralegal would never leave her because of the salary she receives,..no one else would ever pay her what she pays her(30-35%above norm). So far, she’s been with her five years!!

        I remember a time when my X-N needed to move boxes of files to storage. I offered to move them for her and was accused of interfering with the function of her business. She had to be in total control, it had to be her idea!!!

        To summarize, I think if someone wants a lawyer that can win, a NPD/BPD can do a good job, they are master manipulators, but how is a client to know this though?! So, a lawyer’s record must speak for itself, and that’s all you can really go by. Are they good lawyers? That’s relative I suppose in this day in time! The greatest percentage of people that seek divorce carry strong emotional issues and somehow, despite truth or reality, their spouse will pay the price! My X-N thrived on such emotions. Sometimes the facts speak for themselves and sometimes the facts can be an opposing counsel’s enemy when dealing with another lawyer that has NPD/BPD!! My X-N carried herself with unprecendented professionalism in the courtroom, never outwardly exuded her emotions in the courtroom. I have seen the frustration of good lawyer’s totally lose their cool with her.Once she created such a scenario, she would turn away from the judge, with that evil smirk, “gotchya.” Justice is so blind, in ways we simply cannot fathom. It’s important those men out there to understand, take the time to research Family Law Attorney’s, for it can be the difference of a lifetime of misery or a lifetime of sanity and happiness. If there was any time in a person’s life, when seeking divorce, to be rational and get control of their emotions. Many lawyers have the propensity to do what their clients want and fight tooth and nail to achieve their clients goals. Much of this emotion does not pertain to law as it’s written and the attorney has the advantage to string out the costs. I will say this for my X-N, this was not acceptable to her and she took control of the emotional side in the courtroom, it simply was not allowed for emotional outbursts were not tolerated by the judges and it could mean losing the case. I used to get so sick and tired of hearing her say incessantly, “my clients absolutely LOVE ME!!!” Literally, every day I would hear this!! She would win to seek the praise and adulation of her clients, it was really important to her, she fed upon it. I believed to some degree that the judges actually looked forward to her performances on a daily basis!!

        Ramblin again Doc!
        melove54

        PS- dating has gone well and I think I’ve found a winner,.. only time will tell!

  5. mike91163
    September 17, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Replying to jham123 9/17 4:28pm:

    “Why would he state that…..why now….why a random chance meeting would result in such a statement about me and my Character.”

    Ain’t it funny how life works sometimes? What’s fairly ironic is that us “normals” need the ocassional “validation” of our feelings and thoughts, while our NPD/BPDs need it constantly…while diminishing our feelings at the same time!

    One more thing that I believe is fairly critical over the long haul, particularly if you have children: Start a diary/log of events…and the best part is, she will NEVER have to know, thanks to “webmail” based services. I have a Gmail account that has a username and password that she’d never guess, and in it, I created a “draft” email that goes right back to itself. As events occur, I add to this draft…such an extensive body of work will come in quite handy when the degradation & smear campaign begins…and, while its admissibility in legal proceedings is unlikely, it certainly is ammunition to back up your memory of events, especially since there’s NO way you can remember everything…plus, for those who are struggling with the decision to leave, or have already left, a quick review of past events will put any thoughts of “did I do/am I doing the right thing?” to rest…

    • Mr. E
      September 17, 2009 at 5:03 pm

      just wanted to 2nd the advice to keep a journal. Write down the nasty events as they happen. It will definitely help you realize the need to get out.

      • shrink4men
        September 17, 2009 at 9:25 pm

        Ditto! Plus, this is very well stated:

        What’s fairly ironic is that us “normals” need the ocassional “validation” of our feelings and thoughts, while our NPD/BPDs need it constantly…while diminishing our feelings at the same time!

        Best,
        Dr T

  6. jham123
    September 17, 2009 at 3:18 am

    Dr. Tara,

    Reading your original post…..it is as if you have been inside my head for the past 18.5 years.

    Yes, sex was fantastic until the Wedding. Then almost non-existent. We had it once per month for years….and then begrudgingly by her. Just 4 nights ago she stated that once per month “Was all she could muster” at that time. Lately however the frequency is much greater…even 7 times per week at times……but as everyone has stated….there is “0” intimacy, no for-play, no kissing, and she just lays there…it’s all about her getting her “O”.

    BJs? two times since the wedding and even then it was at least a decade ago. However, she loves me to go down. But she openly states that she cannot reciprocate and has no plans to do so.

    The only reason the frequency increased is due to her teachings at church…..that was the only thing that got through to her.

    We’ve been through three marriage counselors. Each time, the counselor for some reason stops being interested in me….and points his or her attention to my Wife. My Wife then feels the heat and some how that counselor is not longer acceptable.

    I’d love nothing more than to earn her love..but as you stated so eloquently, every time I’ve done everything I was told to do….I look up expecting loving arms only to find that the bar has been raised yet again. She DOES state that she cannot love me because I’ve been a disappointment financially all these years and that she has no security due to that…….(we live in America’s safest City in a Half Million dollar home…three cars….Four kids…..) She has never had to work since we got married. She is a stay at home Mom. Now that I’ve reached my financial status……she states that seh cannot love me due to resentment…….for everything……everything bad in her life is my fault for marrying her so young (22) and keeping her from reaching her dreams in life by making her a Mother…

    So yes….I’ve read the books out there…the only one she responds to is “love must be tough” and she totally failed when I tried “The Love Dare”…..the nicer I got the more she stepped up her game of Silent treatments etc.

    I’ve been told….
    “I’m not in love with you”
    I’m not sure I ever did love you”
    I’m not sure I even like your personality anymore”
    “I don’t respect you”
    “You are an angry person” (People from High school tell me I’m the most laid back person they know)

    I’m Sorry Tara, If I had time…..I’d tell you about me….I am a Super Dad and a great provider. I know this about myself, so no I don’t buy that junk from her for one more moment.

    Look up the term “With Holding” to learn about this abuse (not you Tara)

    So now…with four kids (the two Daughters are 6 and 8) and the eye opening from this website……Where do I go now??

    I’ve been trying like mad for the past two years to make things better…….I really don’t want to leave my kids….she is going to Therapy by herself and claims that she wants to work it out…..but she has her moments (Crescent Moon anyone?)

    I am trapped unless I want to give up my kids…..which really I am not willing to do.

    and you are right about the contractual thing as well…..Hours before I was to sign a lease on a place of my own…..It was like “Mutiny on the Bounty” After Fletcher Christian took command of the ship, and just before Captain Bligh was set adrift in a lifeboat…….Only then….ONLY THEN would Bligh attempt to be reasonable……but not one moment before…

    So she said loving words to me….but only this…

    “I’m afraid you’ll take your love away from me”

    And she cried…..Guess what? that is the first time in 10 years that she has said anything along those lines. I caved in and unpacked my bags.

    I am weak…..

    So I ask, what now? If it weren’t for the little Girls…I’d be gone…My two boys are almost adults themselves, they can or they will understand soon enough……but the little girls…..

    • mike91163
      September 17, 2009 at 3:00 pm

      Jham123:

      You did “The Love Dare” project, too? Yeah, tried that…bought the whole 9 yards–the movie “Fireproof”, the book, the couple kit, the works. It’s amazing how until you read this website, and/or do a little deeper research, you ALWAYS think it MUST be you…so, you make the attempts to “change yourself”.

      Just like you, though, the more you try the tips in the book, the more distant and “rebellious” she becomes…truly BPD behavior.

      I’m not knocking the “Love Dare” book…I think it would work quite well for couples that are NORMAL…and it really doesn’t have strong religious overtones…this coming from a no-longer-practicing Roman Catholic.

      Love your line ““You are an angry person” (People from High school tell me I’m the most laid back person they know)”…projection, my boy, projection…ask any of your MUTUAL friends or family, and they’ll take you aside and ask “What’s wrong with her?” There’s only so many times you can use the PMS/headache/doesn’t feel good excuses before they suspect that there’s more at work…

      • jham123
        September 17, 2009 at 4:28 pm

        A few weeks ago, when we did have a major blow-out (the one that had me looking for a place to lease) My friends DID take me aside and say things like that…..

        Just ram home a point….An old friend that I’ve not seen for 7-8 years moved back to our area. Our 17 year old Boys were Team mates way back when……For some reason this guy felt the need to tell me something so random…….in the Supermarket parking lot while his wife was waiting for him…..He turned around to tell me this….

        “I’m glad I ran into you today, you were always the nicest person I knew in involved in our kids sports”

        Why would he state that…..why now….why a random chance meeting would result in such a statement about me and my Character.

        God answered one of my prayers…….Our problem lies with elsewhere besides with me…..

        Thanks for your support Mike….and sorry 9/11 turned into something Ugly when it used to be just your Birthday….

      • shrink4men
        September 17, 2009 at 9:23 pm

        Hi mike91163,

        You make an excellent point. Self-help books, couples counseling, etc., are extremely ineffective when your partner is emotionally abusive and NPD/BPD. These books/programs are for reasonably healthy people who have communication problems.

        Therapy won’t help these women until they can admit they’re a major part of the problem. They ditch counseling when the therapist “turns up the heat” because they can’t tolerate being exposed or held accountable for their behaviors.

        A dear friend of mine always used to get the “you’re so angry” line. It was just more projection. His ex was the angry, psychotic rage episode one.

        These women are all basically the same when you get right down to it.

        Best,
        Dr T

    • shrink4men
      September 17, 2009 at 9:19 pm

      Hi jhamm,

      Getting out is never easy. You sacrificed the last 18.5 years of your life to a woman who doesn’t appreciate you nor the lifestyle you’ve afforded her. How much more do you want to sacrifice. Unfortunately, the longer you stay, the more on the hook you’re going to be financially.

      I think it comes down to make a decision about the kind of life you want to have over the next 2 decades. Your little girls are learning that your marriage is “normal.” Do you want your kids to have the same kind of relationship you have when they’re adults? Children learn by example, so what example do you want to set for them?

      This is very difficult, but your happiness and needs are just as important as your wife’s. The reality is, you have a true chance at happiness if you get out. Your wife is the kind of woman who’ll never be happy, no matter what you do.

      Best Wishes,
      Dr Tara

      • texas nick
        October 2, 2009 at 2:19 am

        Jhamm,

        In other words…time to cancel your membership in the “Never Good Enough” club.

        • Taras
          November 10, 2009 at 9:39 pm

          Leave, before this destroys you and your children too. There’s no preventing this Titanic from sinking and pulling you down with it if you stay.

  7. Peter
    September 14, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    I’m glad I came across this posting because it helps me understand some of the feelings I had went through with my ex.

    She was hyper-sexual the whole time I was with her, she wanted sex constantly. Great right? Most guys complain about never getting any and here I am getting it constantly and she’s singing my praises to boot even going as far as bragging about our sex life to others. What’s the problem?

    Sex was primarily one sided, mostly her laying there and me doing all the work. Any reciprocation on her part was done with half hearted effort and abandoned as quickly as it started. Even foreplay was limited as it “makes her angry”. And the praise I had mentioned? So over the top that it effectively became meaningless, just empty words.

    It felt like something was missing and it only got worse as time went on. My self esteem was on the decline and I started feeling like nothing more than a piece of meat. I couldn’t quite wrap my mind around that though and bringing it up with her was met with sudden and intense hostility. “Where is this coming from?You never tell me anything!” “You should be grateful, no other girl is like me!” I felt guilty for even bringing it up. On occasion she would bring it up again mocking me for ever saying it.

    Now I see what was happening all along. There wasn’t any real intimacy between us. She effectively kept me at arms distance, just the right distance so I could never see her true self, but close enough for her to hold on with a firm grip.

    Thank you Dr. T, your blog has gone a long way towards helping me sort out and resolve some of the thoughts and feelings I’ve had following my recent relationship.

    -Peter

    • shrink4men
      September 14, 2009 at 3:17 pm

      You’re welcome, Peter. I’m glad to have been helpful. First, the fact you were able to discern that sex with your ex wasn’t about intimacy and love and it wasn’t fulfilling dispels the notion that all men are interested in is sex. Second, it’s very courageous that you tried to discuss this was your ex. Shame on her for mocking you when she was the one with the problem.

      I wish you the best as you move away from that relationship and hope you find someone who deserves you next time around.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  8. StillRecovering
    September 4, 2009 at 2:07 am

    I can’t tell you how happy I was to come across a site like this. I am going through a divorce from a woman I suspect to be NPD, a divorce that I was convinced was my fault. I now realize this is not the case. We dated for about 5 months before we got engaged, and although the sex was not mind blowing, it was good. Once we were engaged, it’s as if she completely shut down, both physically and emotionally. She said she just wasn’t interested in sex any more, and I would just have to deal with it. It got to the point where we would have sex maybe once a month. As the wedding approached, once a month turned in to once every two or three months, and we lived together. On our wedding night, she passed out on the bed because she got so drunk at the reception, so no wedding night sex. We made love only once on our honeymoon, because she said she was tired and wasn’t feeling well. From August of 2008 to May of 2009, when we separated, we had sex 3 times. Her excuses were always the same, that she wasn’t feeling well, or she was tired, or that I was being cruel or hateful to her. I did everything I could to care for this woman, I supported her, and it didn’t matter. She made me feel as though I were nothing more than a paycheck to her, and even that wasn’t good enough. I was at a very low point in my life when we started dating, and she took advantage of that fact. I will not let that happen again.

    • mike91163
      September 4, 2009 at 3:06 pm

      StillRecovering, I hear ya completely, man…been there, lived with that.

      I have a couple of questions for all us guys and perhaps Dr. T can help us out on this…

      1–What attracts us to these women in the first place? Yes, I know, they put up such a MASSIVE false front that we can’t see through, but….

      2–When things start changing for the worse, whether it’s in the dating, engagement, or marriage phase, don’t alarm bells go off in our heads? If so, why do we not pay attention to them and act upon them accordingly?

      3–99% of us here are in, or have been in, very bad situations with our BPD/NPDs, and the vast majority of us try to “stick it out”, make it work, yadda-yadda. But, what exactly is it in the normal male psyche that makes us tolerate this crap? Empathy? Sympathy? Love? Compassion? “For better or worse”? In my opinion, there is something there in us that causes us to do things we would never dream of doing or accepting in any other situation or relationship. So, Dr. T, what is “it”?

      Mike

    • shrink4men
      September 5, 2009 at 6:37 pm

      Hi StillRecovering,

      What you describe must have been very painful for you. Why did you go through with the marriage after things “shut down” once you became engaged? I’m not being facetious. I really want to know. I think it’s helpful to understand the line of reasoning, excuses and rationalizations men use to forge ahead in a relationship in spite of very clear warning signs.

      I’m glad to read you ended the relationship and hope she didn’t rake you over the coals too much in the divorce process.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

      • StillRecovering
        September 26, 2009 at 6:06 pm

        Dr. Tara,

        Thanks for your response. At the time I met my soon to be ex (I finally sign the papers next week), I was suffering from extremely low self-esteem. I had just gotten out of a two year relationship with another emotionally unstable woman, and met her soon after. I also felt incredible pressure to marry from my family and society in general, and I thought that the relationship I was in was as good as it was ever going to get.

        As I look back, I never really even asked her to marry me. She basically told me that she was going to leave me if we didn’t get married, and this was only after we’d been dating for 3 months!

        As for our horrible sex life, I of course blamed myself for our problems, and she was more than willing to go along with that. I was taking Prozac at the time (I’ve since changed to Lexapro along with Buspar, which I’m having great success with) and I attributed all of our problems to the medication. Her reaction was that it was my problem and I needed to deal with it. She also constantly refused any attempt on my part for physical intimacy. She would always say that she was tired, or that she didn’t feel good, or that she wasn’t interested. The truth was, I didn’t trust her, I didn’t feel loved by her, and there was absolutely no romance or true intimacy when it came to sex. She frequently posts about her current sex life on a social site for married women (I have been fighting with my desire to read her posts, which has been getting better, thankfully) and goes on about how amazing and wonderful it is. For her, sex is all about the physical act, not about true intimacy and feeling.

        So, looking back, I think it was basically a case of horrible self-esteem that led me into the marriage. I am thankful that I managed to finally see the light after 8 months instead of 20 years, and I’m looking forward to the day when this chapter in my life is nothing more than a very distant memory.

        Thanks,

        StillRecovering

  9. mike91163
    August 31, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    I’m gonna try to keep this short ‘n sweet, but bear with me…

    A sexual relationship with a BPD/NPD is based on ONE thing: Control, period. It’s about what SHE wants, when SHE wants, how SHE wants, and IF she wants.

    During our dating/engagement phase, sex was good…I knew going into our relationship that she was relatively inexperienced (not that I was a “stud”!), but nevertheless we enjoyed ourselves. I knew that she was on “the pill”, supposedly for “hormonal issues”, but more on that later…

    BUT, once the old ball and chain (aka wedding ring) was on, things changed. We had discussed prior to marrying that we wanted to wait a few years before having children. OK, fine…but within a few months, she started telling me during sex “don’t come inside me…” I mentioned the pill, but she said (accurately) that the pill wasn’t 100% safe. OK, so I say that I’ll use a condom…what was the response I got? “YOU WILL NOT USE ONE OF THOSE THINGS INSIDE ME!” Well, which is it, then? HER idea of “safety” was for me to “pull out”…which, of course, is NOT safe at all!

    What wound up happening, and you guys that have been through this can relate, was that we’d be having sex, and that good feeling would start building…BUT, right along with it would be “DANGER-DANGER-DANGER!” alarm bells going off in my head. Over time, ED issues developed-yep, no problems getting started, but a certain body part would react to these “warnings”, and sex would come to a “whimpering” halt. As expected, it became “what’s wrong with YOU?” Naturally, while I didn’t get to “finish”, she already had received what SHE wanted…AND, she wasn’t very keen on finishing me by either of the “accepted methods.”

    This nonsense went on for quite some time, and I simply gave up, content to just “take care of myself”…which she got quite pissed about.

    As the late Billy Mays would say, “But wait, there’s more…” I tried to expand her “horizons” a little…by that, I mean cunnilingus and fellatio. Well, on my end, that was quite a fiasco, as any “nice advice” about teeth and such things were greeted with scorn and “If you don’t like the way I do it, I just won’t do it!” Well OK then, I’d rather not get it than be sore for days…but a VERY interesting thing happened when SHE was the “recipient”. As you guys AND women know, at that penultimate moment of orgasmic bliss, you are completely VULNERABLE…and I capitalized “vulnerable” to make a point. When I was performing on my wife, she enjoyed it, but ONLY to a certain point. I knew, based on past experiences, that she had not gone “over the top”, and she would make me stop just shy of that point. One time, I refused to stop, and wouldn’t allow her to push me away. She wound up damn near punching me in the head, and told me that if I EVER tried to do that again, OR didn’t listen to her, that would be the end of that form of sex. I truly believe that a BPD/NPD cannot bring themselves to have a complete and full orgasmic sexual experience because that would expose VULNERABILITY! Conversely, since they will not allow themselves to do this, they can continue to maintain control 24/7/365.

    Anyway, back to my timeline…when we married in ’91, I was 27, my wife 30. 5-6 years later, we realized that if we were going to have kids, the time was now…but all attempts failed…and while I had to submit to a sperm sample test, her ob-gyn simply gave her Clomid, a fertility drug. Which, looking back, I don’t know if she even took the pills or not, but nevertheless, we were unsuccessful. After a few years of this, we finally went to a reproductive endocrinologist, who, when he got back her blood results, was pissed…turns out that she had ovarian cysts, and her testosterone levels were those of a teenage male! This doctor was FURIOUS that her ob-gyn had never detected this…BUT, she never allowed me to confront her previous doctor, and wouldn’t let me see her medical records. I strongly believe that she did this on purpose, as she did not want the responsibility of children, even though I had expressed my INTENSE desire to have kids early on in the relationship, and she agreed at that time! Unfortunately, at her age at that time (39), it was very risky for her to have kids, as we first had to resolve ovarian cyst problems.

    Then again, maybe it’s true that saying that “God works in strange ways…” After all, between the horror stories I’ve read here, and knowing her personality, I would NEVER want to bring up a child in that environment.

    So, to sum up, sex and all its attendant issues are simply tools in the BPD/NPD’s manipulation and control toolbox.

    • got.her.number
      August 31, 2009 at 8:54 pm

      OMG! For a second I thought you were my partner recounting his woes with his BPD/NPD ex! The Crazy is SO similar, right down to the fertility issues and half-assed fertility treatment. Well, it sounds like you got out, so good for you, and hopefully you will find someone amazing to have a healthy family with.

      • mike91163
        September 1, 2009 at 6:33 pm

        Thanks for the good wishes, got.her.number. Well, I’m not quite out YET, but finalized MY decision to do so recently, and gave myself a timetable to be gone within 2 years…lots of things I want to square away first, such as “shared debt” (much of which SHE created, but whatever!). That timeline is flexible ONLY if it’s shorter–24 months from now, I’m gone, regardless of where we’re at.

        When I finally escape and am completely FREE, I hope to find someone younger who shares my values and dreams…I only mention younger, since unfortunately, you women have a biological clock ticking, where us fellas don’t…witness Tony Randall having a child in his 70s! I sure ain’t gonna be like him, but I don’t think being 50-ish and having kids would be a big deal…many May-September marriages DO work!

        I’d love to chat with your partner about his issues and how he escaped…perhaps we can exchange email info.

        Mike

    • shrink4men
      September 17, 2009 at 9:12 pm

      Hi Mike,

      Thank you for sharing your experiences. I agree with you. Sometimes God or the powers that be work in strange ways. It’s much easier to extricate oneself from this kind of relationship when children aren’t involved. Mind you, it’s still hard as hell, but you’re not leaving behind any little hostages.

      Congratulations on finding your way out.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  10. Freedom
    August 20, 2009 at 5:53 am

    as my relationship started to dwindle, i just really didn’t like having sex much. it had everything to do with what was happening outside the bedroom. i didn’t feel safe outside of the bedroom and it carried into the bedroom. sometimes my inner voice would be whispering “you’re gonna pay for this” to myself, in reference to what i was gonna have to put up with because she’d think everything was all better when it wasn’t. as more things piled up and nothing got resolved, as i felt i couldn’t trust her with my heart… sex was the last thing on my mind.

  11. melove54
    August 20, 2009 at 4:23 am

    The topic of sex where it concerns the women us guys have all dealt with brings out some pretty bad stories. Poor johny555, I’m sorry dude, but I had to chuckle about the knife and fork thing.

    I feel as though we’ve all been “intimate” with you Dr. T! That’s a good thing though, it means we trust you and have faith in your words. God knows, you are probably one of the few in your field that truly understand, men can be abused as well. I mean look at poor Johny555, she bit him on the freakin chest mulitple times!! Sorry johny, we all got to find some humor in our humility to get through it all. Best wishes comrades!

    • Nick
      August 20, 2009 at 2:28 pm

      This site is like an online course but at stake, in place of a grade are our very survivals. At one end of the potential spectrum we might be released from the nightmare…gain some distance, and actually laugh about it all. The other end, quite frankly, might find us dead. I can name men, friends of mine, caught up in these relationships who took their own lives. The
      despair, especially when kids and debt and alcohol abuse are involved-can be too much. Get outa the trap!!!!

      • Nick
        August 20, 2009 at 2:40 pm

        I also would reccomend a book…”hold on to your N.U.T. s (non-negotiable, unalterable terms) it’s a book about being a better man…basically being a decent guy and at the same time letting no woman walk all over you. It’s about staying true to yourself without stepping on others. It’s about boundaries and mutual respect. Not a book to follow while walking hand in hand with an npd/bpd….

    • shrink4men
      August 20, 2009 at 10:17 pm

      Hi melove54,

      Just don’t tell my boyfriend! (Kidding!) I think it’s great that you and my other readers are willing to share your intimate experiences, struggles and how you deal with them. It certainly dispels the lie that men aren’t capable of sharing their feelings.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  12. Johny555
    August 20, 2009 at 3:41 am

    You hit it smack dab on the head doc. However I would add one a sixth point to your five. Fear. Don’t get me wrong it’s implied that any man in this kid of relationship would feel “creep-ed out”. Aside from the lack of trust and respect and the over all weird factor of the Ro-bot-like-be-havior of these women. You have to keep in mind that they can actually instill true fear in the men they date an sleep with. For example one day after I had gone about three weeks in absolute denial of sex. Meaning she showed me little or no efection, and called me a pervert when I tried. I was allowed to “pleasure” my ex. Afterward she lied next to me and asked. “Would you love me if I had herpes?”
    All I could think was A) AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH! and B) Thank god for condoms!!! She got tested – we both did no herpes, but still. Ug!

    Also on a separate occasion when she tried to get me to have sex with her – but I wasn’t in the mood. She said she would get me in the mood. I confusing her power trip for intimacy was fine with that. After about five min of trying she became so pissed off that I wasn’t “excited” that she began to hit me and say horrible things about me. I grabbed her hands to make her stop and she bit me on the chest several time’s drawing blood. At this point I got away from her (gently but quickly). I pushed her off me and locked myself in her bathroom, she beat on the door for a while but soon gave up. When I came out she didn’t apologize, she didn’t cry, she didn’t show any emotions. She made me breakfast without a word while I asked why? She told me she was sorry, and that she didn’t know what had gotten in to her.

    I didn’t stay for breakfast I was to scared of eating with her while she used a knife and fork. That was the begging of the end. The end came a week later when she showed me the bruises on her wrists and chest where I had pushed her. She never said as much but it was implied – If I ever told anyone what she had done to me – she would tell the world that I had abused her. What’s more she did it in a coy voice and tone. She was getting off on blackmail!!!

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

    Fear is -key- to the strategy of a NPD/BPD woman they use it in combination with lack of trust and lack of respect. When they do so there are more then just creepy. They are abusive!!!

    • shrink4men
      August 20, 2009 at 10:20 pm

      Hi Johnny555,

      Yikes and creepers. She sounds just awful. I don’t know how you even managed to stay for breakfast. I would’ve suited up and got the hell out after the herpes statement, never mind the physical abuse. How awful that must’ve been for you.

      I hope that you’re no longer with this woman and have moved onto saner pastures.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  13. melove54
    August 19, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    A transactional relationship is one in which person “A” provides a service in exchange for person “B” providing a service. Prostitution is a kind of transactional relationship and so is sex with this kind of NPD/BPD woman. In other words, if you want to get laid, then you have to give her something she wants or behave how she wants you to behave. This is another way she controls you.

    I think too that when the man is showing his emotional distance, his disinterest in having sex with his BPD/NPD, she then resorts to “obligatory sex.” This kind of approach occurs in relationships whereby there is no NPD/BPD present. However, the NPD/BPD woman senses this distance and develops her ulterior motive based upon a false sense of obligation. She wants you to believe she recognizes your needs in the abstinence, or infrequency of your sex life with them. What she has not heard are those loving compliments, the adulation, and the doting words they require. I believe this falls into the category you mentioned about “I need you to love me” when the sexual desire of the man wanes. As you mentioned, that depends upon the sex drive of the individual. Our sexual interaction was frequent until the last year of our relationship. Frequency dwindled down to an average of once every three weeks. She would wait until the last moment before I was going home(as I lived in another town) and say, “you know, I need to give you some before you leave.” Sometimes she did, sometimes she didn’t, the point is though, I simply got tired of being the vulnerable one, spilling my heart, and inner most self with no reciprocation. One time she made this comment to me after a horrid week of interaction with one another. I could have blown it off, however, when she made the sex offer a couple of hours before I was leaviing, I stated, “No, I’m not interested, so if you’re horny, I suggest you dig in your drawer of toys and satisfy yourself.” I received a surprising reply of, “I can’t believe you just said that!!, and to think that I suck your c–k!!” When she said that to me, I knew she was pushing the control buttons again, so I left right then. I was frustrated and we had many previous discussions about intimacy before, to no avail. Guess you’re right again Doc, the “obligation” she begrudgingly bestows does end up being transactional!

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:58 pm

      That’s typical of these women. When her spider senses pick up that you’re getting fed up and fear that you might end the relationship, she’ll “give you some.” It’s rarely with joy or passion, but the sense of obligation, being put upon and duty. They keep you on the hook by dispensing sex. If you’ve been in the relationship long enough, a specific time frame usually evolves. For example, every 3 weeks, every 6 weeks or every 6 months.

      Using sex to keep someone from leaving you is transactional and, as another reader writes, that’s no way to live.

      Best,
      Dr T

      • thom
        August 20, 2009 at 12:29 am

        I remember last year on my birthday she had given me the cold shoulder for a week – moved me to the guest room, refused to talk to me, refused to touch me, etc…. I bought Madden Football (really the only purchase I made for me while we together…and I only play once and awhile) and was playing a game after she went to bed. After about a half hour she comes out and says “Can you pause the game so I can give you your birthday BJ and get it over with”. I simply said no thanks – she was stunned…

        It was creepy feeling – no emotion – no passion – no love

        Just a strange sense of obligation which pretty much sums up our entire sex life…

        • shrink4men
          August 20, 2009 at 1:50 am

          Madden Football was definitely the better choice. It’s hard to believe that these women are stunned/surprised/insulted when you don’t jump at the chance when they treat it as something to “get it over with.” Also, the “special occasion” BJ/sex is so sad and, as you point out, creepy. The male equivalent would be, “Well, now that we’re married, I’m only taking you out to a restaurant on your birthday.” Ugh.

          • Cool Breeze
            August 25, 2009 at 10:04 pm

            I’ve made my mistakes and learned a few things along the way which I would like to share, primarily about the NPD women’s sexuality in marriage. First of all, most of us got into these relationships because of flaws in our self esteem which we tried to compensate for with the NPD woman in the first place. Face it-nothing makes you feel more confident than novel hot sex with a hot babe, which is what the beginning was like for me. Men need to use due diligence when making commitments. NPD women can be very good at faking high interest and sexual levels, they are expert at sensing our flaws and delivering a confident feeling like no other. We don’t want to walk because in the beginning, it seems great . We omit asking our friends for their honest opinions.

            With NPD you are relating to a woman’s “false self” which is not even a person-so sex really changes with time-particularly after marriage. NPDs secretly think things like “it works for me” to justify their sexual withdrawal. No empathy-but they can fake it. Control issues to cover up their problems. Sex is never about pleasing her man that she could hold dear-rather just something to initially trap you and withhold later to control you. This process doesn’t stop-the longer you’re in-the more damage you take on. You get run around so much sexually, it’s as if you slowly evolve from an alpha male to a beta male. A beta male stops even feeling capable of getting any sex-how ironic-the perfect trap. The beta male’s #1 trait becomes fear of going for his desires. The beta male accepts his position until he is willing to take a risk-which is to fight to leave. Getting out is not easy-a price must be paid-often the divorce attorneys are NPDs themselves-it’s like you get punished by everyone.

            But after one bad trip to get out-you get your balls back-and your power because you get to choose who you spend your time and energy with thereafter. You slowly turn back into an alpha male-which means no apologies for being a man. Looking back now-what are the desirable qualities of a woman partner that would screen out any NPD-I would say “giving” and “flexible”. It’s very hard for an NPD woman to fake that even in the beginning.

            • shrink4men
              August 25, 2009 at 10:50 pm

              Hi Cool Breeze,

              You make some very good points. You’re right, the qualities of giving and flexibility are extremely difficult for NPD women to fake. I’d also look for the absence of a sense of humor about herself and the inability to take criticism or tolerate inconvenience or frustration. Also, does she have any close friends whom you’ve met or do they all seem to live out of state?

              I’m not sure I fully understand the alpha male/beta male distinction. However, I think it comes down to mutual respect, acceptance and consideration. And yes, after awhile, abuse can grind you down, erode your confidence and make you frightened or anxious to go after the things you want in life. Instead, you passively accept mistreatment and resign yourself to being unhappy.

              Ending a relationship with an NPD can be extremely painful due to their penchant for vindictiveness and the preponderance of NPD attorneys. However, perhaps the best way to fight an NPD is with an NPD-for-hire. Once you’re out of the relationship, you will begin to heal and be able to breathe again.

              Thanks for reading and commenting,
              Dr Tara

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 9:01 pm

      “if we go out with friends and check is $400.00 and you pay it…it’s a turn on” I shoulda replied…would you have an orgasm on the spot if the bill was a thousand!”

      That’s funny and proves my point that after you get enough time, distance and perspective these women are incredibly funny, especially because they actually believe the crazy things they say.

      Cheers,
      Dr T

  14. melove54
    August 19, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    If I said, “yes, you do”, holy shit batman! Let the rhetoric and turmoil begin! I remember her saying some of the acts of services she did want, which was pedicures more often(I did that once a month anyway, until she insisted that I not touch her feet anymore?!), more back rubs( she got those about every other night anyway), more flowers sent to her (I already spent on average about $600.00 a year on flowers) , she wanted me to remodel her house (I did completely remodel her master bedroom and bath. She took half the credit and did nothing.I was the labor and she paid for the materials) After that, I told her she could hire somone to finish the rest.

    Point is, despite what you say or do, it’s never enough!

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:51 pm

      Wait a minute. You gave your ex pedicures? In a sick way, you kinda have to admire a woman who can get a guy to do that, well, almost, but not quite.

      Holy cow. Congratulations again on getting out.

    • KO
      April 9, 2010 at 8:04 pm

      Acts of servitude with no mutual benefits. So true.
      I gave her massages and she liked them because she perceived them only as me laboring for her. Once she realized that actually touching her while massaging her was also pleasurable to me, she did not want to have massages any more. Similar to the “pedicures” attitude.

      • Mr. E
        April 9, 2010 at 8:14 pm

        Yep. My wife seems flabbergasted that I would enjoy doing something that makes her feel good.

        Which, incidentally, makes me suspicious any time she does something nice for me. ;)

  15. melove54
    August 18, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    My X and I went through probably a half dozen books and the only one she seemed to take interest in was “The five love languages”. What it entails is discovering a specific mode of love that one appreciates the most. In other words, what makes someone feel loved. You’re supposed to prioritize each of these five languages by importance. Dr. T,.. If you’ve read this before, I give you 3 chances to guess (the first two guesses don’t count) which one my X chose as her #1 love language! That’s right folks, it’s “ACTS OF SERIVCE”, described in the first part of the chapter as, “doing the things you know your spouse would like you to do..You seek to please her by SERVING her by doing things for her.” The intent of this chapter was good, however, she milked and manipulated that one for all it was worth. Freedog, you are correct in saying, these self help books only apply to women without BPD/NPD. My X only took interest in this book because she found things in it she could manage into her malicious agenda.

    • John
      August 19, 2009 at 10:05 am

      Same book, same thing: Acts of Service. That is what she wanted, and “quality time.” Quality time is me helping her with the kids. What does that entail? “I shouldn’t have to tell you, I’m not you’re mother.”

      I agree that the 5 Love Langs. has a good general premise: Do the things for your spouse that will make them feel loved. It just needs a warning that a spouse that is demanding indentured servitude does not respect or love you.

      • Mr. E
        August 19, 2009 at 2:38 pm

        Oooh, the “I shouldn’t have to tell you.” Been there. “Yes, you do,” has yet to be the correct reply.

        Universal?

      • thom
        August 20, 2009 at 12:21 am

        Same here –

        My ex’s love language was acts of service as well. Mine were quality time and physical touch…

        If I disagreed or didn’t do as she said 24/7 then I was bad at communicating or didn’t love her enough.

        If i asked for more quality time or wanted physical touch then I was perverted or “all I wanted was sex”…

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:48 pm

      Another great example of how these women cherrypick psychology to justify their indefensible behaviors and control you. Some of them also use the Bible and other religious text to do the same thing.

      When they can’t find direct quotes to use on you, it’s equally amazing what they read between the lines and wildly make up as they go along.

      Scary stuff. Truly.

  16. John
    August 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Nick,

    Funny thing, my wife came home with a couple of these books after seeing a therapist. I read them, but she never read them. I called her out on that and she said she “skimmed them.” Then she switched therapists. I wonder what that one told her.

    Found out my parents wanted to warn me about her right before the marriage. Damn!

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:44 pm

      She “skimmed” them. Doesn’t that say it all? Priceless.

      Cheers,
      Dr T

  17. Nick
    August 18, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Dear John,

    Let me take a crack at it…from my own experiences. My x did just about all of the above dr. T mentioned tactics, and i too waited around for the once every 10 days or so-scrap. i performed my best…like a little circus monkey and was rewarded with the “wow…that was great (type)comments”….it oughta be great! I was the only one doing anything! the sick thing is, i put my all into pleasing this corpse of a lover because sex was the ONLY time i felt that i met her standards…..i was made to feel like a failure in all other areas.

    as for the books out there….i remember reading a few too. This is just my bias but most of them suck and are mostly written to get men to behave in unnatural ways. However, i do think that the “men are from mars women from venus” literature does have merit BUT ONLY WITH MENTALLY STABLE WOMEN!!!!!! It works….women do need to be listened too..and need to be made to feel special etc.

    problem is the npd/bpd types see it as weakness and abuse those principles and twist them and whack a mole you into the ground. I know…been there. I spent the the first 10 years pushing back and calling her on her psycho rage episode behavior. The next five i fell more into submission and kept my mouth shut whenever possible. let me tell you…she ramped up 10 fold!

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:43 pm

      Hi Nick,

      You make an EXCELLENT point about self-help/pop psychology books. Not the statement about them “sucking” (no comment), but the part about how BPD/NPD women cherry pick through them to find information which they then twist around to attack, abuse, manipulate, shame and control you and justify their sick behaviors.

      This is also why individual and/or couple’s therapy rarely works with these women. Even if you find a good shrink, these women twist everything around and continue to blame, pathologize and punish you.

      The best use of therapy in these cases is when you seek support to end the relationship and recover from it.

      Thanks for reading and sharing your experiences, Nick. I appreciate it.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  18. got.her.number
    August 18, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    I got a little nauseous reading this because you’ve described my partner’s ex to a T. It’s so heartbreaking to think about the abuse he has endured at her hand. He’s such an amazing, loving and compassionate man and she made him feel like a perverted sex monger just for wanting to connect with her on that level. It saddens me, deeply. I am thankful that he and I have been able to find in each other mutually respectful intimacy where we both are able to be vulnerable and are eager to meet each others needs. Our intimacy is truly mind blowing because of the deep respect we have for on another and ourselves.

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:37 pm

      Hi got.her.number,

      I agree. It’s nauseating to think of the pain and damage these women inflict all the while claiming it’s “love.” It’s sick and frightening.

      I’m very happy that you and your partner found each other. The horrid relationship he had with his ex will make your bond all the more powerful and you will appreciate what you’ve found in each other all the more.

      Kind Regards,
      Dr Tara

  19. John
    August 18, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Dr. Tara

    Near the end in my marriage (it ain’t over quite yet, the divorce is not final) I had bought a couple of books on “sex-starved marriages.” I’m curious as to your take on these types of books.

    Recently she told me that I should go out with my bachelor buddy and get a girlfriend, that she just wasn’t interested in sex. We are both 42 years old, in good shape and attractive people. I’ve been unhappy for years. This wasn’t a situation where I demanded sex 5 times a week and she was interested once a month. This was me essentially begging for a thimble full of sexual intimacy once every week or two. On Fridays and Saturdays, I could feel the tension and anxiety because I knew if I made one wrong look or expression on my face, said the wrong thing, I would be getting the cold shoulder treatment again.

    I’m here to tell you that is no way to live!

    The transactional, withholding descriptions are so accurate it is jarring – and depressing as well. My soon-to-be-ex expected me to be subserviant to her. She treated me like a dog and only handed out a table scrap here and there.

    I know that one of the things that would keep from getting married in the future is the fear of being in another sex-starved marriage.

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 8:26 pm

      Hi John,

      I find most pop psychology/self-help books written, in many cases, by self-appointed experts with a history of relationship train wrecks to be somewhat . . . um . . . er . . . lacking? Dubious? Suspect?

      Challenging you to go out and find sex elsewhere comes directly from the NPD playbook, page 105. It’s pretty common. Of course, once you finally get fed up and stray outside of the marriage and they find out, all hell breaks loose. “How could you, you bastard?

      I have a friend whose wife taunted him for years with, “If you want to have sex; go have sex. Just wear a condom” Once he finally did and filed for divorce after falling in love with the other woman, his ex-wife sprayed him with verbal acid, calling him a “pervert” and a “cheat.” He reminded her of what she’d said many times and, of course, she denied it. All’s well that ends well. He’s in a happy, loving relationship and she’s still her old, miserable withholding, rejecting, self-deluded self.

      The taunt/challenge is just another way to make you feel bad. I can’t imagine how painful it would be to hear the person you love to tell you to go have sex with someone else. It’s beyond rejecting.

      On Fridays and Saturdays, I could feel the tension and anxiety because I knew if I made one wrong look or expression on my face, said the wrong thing, I would be getting the cold shoulder treatment again. This is just another device these women use to control you. You go out of your way to cater to her and kiss her ass and then you forget to, I don’t know, do something as arbitrary and meaningless as forgetting to say “thank you” when she passes the salt and that’s it! No sex for you! She’s kind of like the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld, except with her it’s not chicken gumbo that she withholds; it’s sex.

      You’re absolutely correct. This is no way to live.

      Don’t be afraid of the institution of marriage, Jim. Be afraid of women who should be institutionalized. There are women out there who are very capable of reciprocating love and affection unconditionally, who enjoy physical intimacy and don’t treat sex as a “Scooby” snack for good behavior. Sex with the person you love is it’s own reward.

      Keep the faith,
      Dr Tara

      • shrink4men
        August 19, 2009 at 8:32 pm

        I forgot to add, chances are your ex never intended to have weekend sex with you anyway, Jim. Holding you to unrealistic standards is nothing more than an excuse to justify her behavior and has the added benefit of putting the blame on you when you inevitably do something “wrong.”

        Furthermore, if you have to jump through an endless number of hoops for a mechanical romp in the hay, you need to ask yourself what you’re doing with the person. Creating arbitrary barriers to physical intimacy is a strong indicator that you’re not in a healthy relationship and that the woman does not love you.

  20. melove54
    August 18, 2009 at 12:22 am

    What can I say Dr. T, you’re spot on again. Sex is just another tool in their arsenal of control. I could never achieve the opportunity to simply make love to my X, it was always about, as she called it, “getting hers.” Sure she would allow me to begin to make love to her, then when it became uncomfortable (becoming too intimate), she would tell me to quit talking so much and let’s get on with it!! She would tell me what she wanted and when. I then began to see it as, “well it’s good sex anyway.” I was only fooling myself. I like being vulnerable where it concerns intimacy, I want to share, without risk in my opinion, there is no reward. However, this is exactly the kind of man these female predators want. In my case, I chose the wrong person to be vulnerable with, to attempt to show my passion and expect her to reciprocate. It never came to fruition. Every single thing you described in this article Dr. T, truly happened in my X-relationship. It’s like I said in a previous post, “they perjure the hearts of a passionate and loving man.”

    • shrink4men
      August 19, 2009 at 7:45 pm

      Hi melove54,

      I find the language these women use fascinating. “Getting hers” has a ring of “you owe me” and, again, is all about what you can do for her rather than doing for each other.

      “Just get on with it” sounds like something I’d say to my dentist as he revs up the drill and asks if everything’s okay. It always amazes me that men even want to make love to these women. It’s like cozying up to an ice cube or a pin cushion.

      Dr T

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